advancement goal for centennial quality unit award

[GKlose]

Hello all -

 

It's not like I'm seeking clarification, or trolling for dissent, or anything but I found this mildly interesting:

 

At a district committee meeting last night, our district commissioner was going over centennial quality unit criteria (there is a goal for 50% advancement, however I don't know if that is the district, or part of the council or national criteria).

 

Our DC mentioned that packs find it relatively easy to meet the criteria, because ScoutNet advancement reports count Bobcat as a "rank earned".

 

He went on to mention that "I don't know why they don't do the some thing for Scout rank"...I knew that the Scout badge is not a rank, and mentioned that. News to both the DC and the DE, and that's fine (it can be looked up). But the discussion digressed into differences between Bobcat and Scout, and why they should both be treated the same (and I agree -- the spirit and intent of both Bobcat and Scout appear to be the same, so they should be treated equally in terms of advancement).

 

It wasn't long before the discussion shifted over to adult leader training (for CQU), and that opened up another whole can of worms...

[AwHeck]

I believe that for the Centennial Quality Unit, all goals are to be set by the unit, I didn't think there were any mandated by National. The idea is to have the units stretch from wherever they happen to be, not set arbitrary goals that may be 'easy' for some units but very difficult for others to achieve.

[Buffalo Skipper]

GKlose,

Are you refering to a Centennial Quality Unit or Centennial Quality District?  I can see where your coments could be refering to either....

[GKlose]

Sorry, I can see how that can be confusing...

 

This was from a DC at a district committee meeting, and I believe he was talking about quality units (and he had CQU sheets in front of him). As far as I know, one of the criteria of quality district is to have a certain percentage of CQU's right?

 

In the limited reading I had done, I thought that goals were put in place by individual units. However, I don't know if this is just our district or not, but our district's unit commissioners seem to have a hand in getting those forms filled out. From the way the DC was talking, it seems like every unit had the advancement goal of 50%. I couldn't tell if that was just a coincidence, whether UC's suggested that, or if it was a district/council/national suggestion, or if that goal was already set in the process. If I were more awake at 8:30pm at night, I'd think about asking questions about that sort of thing :-).

 

Anyway, I'm trying not to get too bogged down in the actual CQU award (or district award). I'm really not very informed on the subject. It seems like they are approaching it the right way -- they wish units to have "stretch goals", but at the same time, attainable goals, so that units can achieve the award.

 

Thanks...Guy

[Buffalo Skipper]

Guy,

 

It is my understanding that each unit (with their commissioner) fill out the CQU sheet, with each unit setting their own goals.

 

I have seen the CQ District sheet, but I cannot recall if it includes advancement goals. It does have a provision for CQU participation, membership (both in individuals and units), commissioners and other areas.

 

I have likes and dislikes about the CQU program, but as you said, that if for another thread.

[John-in-KC]

Here's the difference to me:

 

Cub Scouting Bobcat is an absolute entry to Scouting. The kid has most likely never had to learn something like the Promise and the Law of the Pack. They're not just words, they have meanings. I remember when I got my Bobcat pin, all those years ago, it was a big day!

 

Let's be honest, most kids who join Boy Scouting move up from Cubbing. They've already been through the gauntlet of important words at least once. Further, those who did Web II and AOL had to learn the Scout Oath and Law in due course to get there. It's not necessarily new material, it's not necessarily the first time they've committed to something rock-solid.

 

My thoughts only.

[GKlose]

Interesting thought, John...

 

Another surprising bit from our discussion -- he mentioned a troop that waited until an October Court of Honor to award Scout badges to their newbies; he was implying that it took the troop that long to "advance" them to that point (assuming a spring transition to the troop).

 

I mentioned to him that AoL recipients were supposed to receive their Scout badges right away ("with approval of your Scoutmaster" according to the handbook). Now, I see two red flags -- one being that it seems like it took and awfully long time to walk them through some rather easy stuff -- or, the other being that they held onto the badges until the next court. I offered the opinion that you should get these badges on them as soon as possible (for meeting "joining requirements", after all!), and that by the end of summer they should probably be fairly well done with Tenderfoot.

 

I can't complain -- I think our own troop has some kind of issue, too. At the end of this summer, a scout showed up that I hadn't seen before. He'd been out for over a year due to lyme disease. But at our October court, he was awarded Scout and Tenderfoot badges at the same time. I'm happy for him, but I don't understand why it would take so long to get him a recognition for joining!

 

Guy

[NealOnWheels]

The Scout Badge requirements are "joining requirements". They are to be completed before one becomes a Boy Scout. It is not supposed to be earned after joining. The badge should be given as soon as a boy joins. To that extent I guess that one could argue that it is not advancement.

 

The Bobcat Badge is earned after joining. Although unlikely, a Cub Scout could go all five years without ever earning the badge.

 

Using statistics to measure quality is problematic. Much of what makes a quality unit cannot be measured with statics. Without statistics it becomes rather subjective judgement.

[jmwalston]

"The Scout Badge requirements are "joining requirements". They are to be completed before one becomes a Boy Scout. It is not supposed to be earned after joining. The badge should be given as soon as a boy joins. To that extent I guess that one could argue that it is not advancement."

 

So, the new recruit must know this before he joins a unit? He will have a Scoutmaster conference before joining? I believe the badge shows he has completed the initial process showing he understands the commons symbols of Scouting, not that he has completed the application.

[Bob White]

If you consider that in a troop that follows the scouting program the New Scouts, even without the Scout Badge being a rank, will likely earn two to three ranks the first year. That being the case, meeting a 50% advancement goal should not be difficult.

 

[GNX Guy]

(This message has been edited by GNX Guy)

[GNX Guy]

Bob White,

 

You mention that if a troop follows the scouting program, scouts will earn two or three ranks the 1st year.

 

I've never been able to find where this prgram is spelled out. I've only seen that it is "encouraged but should not be pressured...so a boy may work on the requirements at his own speed. (scoutmaster handbook page 119)

 

Is there a publication that shows this 1st year program you speak of?

 

Thanks

 

(This message has been edited by GNX Guy)

[NealOnWheels]

"So, the new recruit must know this before he joins a unit? He will have a Scoutmaster conference before joining? I believe the badge shows he has completed the initial process showing he understands the commons symbols of Scouting, not that he has completed the application."

 

Yes, the application lists three things needed for joining - the third is completing the Joining Requirements found in the Boy Scout Handbook. In the handbook the Joining Requirements is the Scout Badge.

 

Online the application can be found at http://old.scouting.org/forms/28-406.pdf and the Joining Requirements can be found at http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/joining.aspx .

(This message has been edited by NealOnWheels)

[GKlose]

I understand what Bob White is talking about...

 

I think if you have a young and enthusiastic new scout, and an active troop program (outings at least once a month, for example, and perhaps patrol activities in addition), then T and 2C are pretty much easily attainable, and perhaps the bulk of 1C too, within the first year. So depending on when a new scout starts, that could mean 2 or possibly 3 rank advancements in the first year.

 

Of course, advancement happens with a self-driven scout, perhaps with a little encouragement from a parent and a troop leader. If everyone else is advancing, then it would seem like the young and enthusiastic new scout would too, in a twist of a peer pressure "Just Say Yes" kind of situation .

 

But I would also balance that with the idea that sometimes those Star, Life and Eagle advancements don't necessarily happen on a "one scout per year" average, so the 2 or 3 from young scouts may help bring up the troop average.

 

An example is my own son...when he joined in April, at his very first conference, the SM encouraged him to achieve Tenderfoot as fast as possible (then he would be in good shape going into July summer camp). Tenderfoot was finished in May, and he worked on 2C and a few 1C requirements at summer camp, and finished 2C just before the October CoH. He's roughly halfway on his way to 1C, and if he desires to, he could probably finish it in a few weeks.

 

Guy(This message has been edited by GKlose)