Alcohol at Eagle Court of Honor Reception

[NeilLup]

Hello Your Honor,

 

I think that I know the answer to this question but didn't this activity fall under the "benefit or other auspices of an ....educational institution" provision. Or was the DE allowed to twist in the wind?

[evmori]

Not only your example, nldscout, but anyone enjoying an adult beverage in their home with minors present is violating this really poorly written law! Including those who wrote the law!

[scoutldr]

John, if common sense were common, we wouldn't have much to talk about here!

[nldscout]

NeilLup,

 

Unfortunatly for the DE, this was a private social gettogether as a thank you for the people that helped at Day Camp. It really was a crying shame that it turned out like this. The problem was a couple of Holier than Thou mothers who filed the official complaint.

 

 

[click23]

As a unit commissioner, if one of my unit leaders had this situation and asked my advice, I would simply say after the closing ceremony for the ECOH, have one of the parents stand up and say "Thank you for coming to the ECOH, you all are welcome to attend our private reception." Out of respect for scouting, I would have urge them to request that all scouts and scouters change out of their uniforms.

[Gold Winger]

"A person is guilty of unlawfully dealing with a child in the second degree when:

 

1. Being an owner, lessee, manager or employee of a place where alcoholic beverages are sold or given away, he permits a child less than sixteen years old to enter or remain in such place unless: "

 

So when two teens stop at Pizza Hut for lunch, they can't go in unless a parent is with them?

 

" At the same time, your 12 yr old son has invited a friend over to play video games. You hand me a beer, you take one, we sit on deck to relax. You just committed a crime."

 

In this case, wouldn't you be the "accompanying adult authorized by the parent or guardian"?

 

[NeilLup]

Hello Your Honor,

 

That's my point about being allowed to twist in the wind.

 

The council could have said "This was an after day camp activity held for the benefit of the Boy Scouts of America, an educational institution. Participating were an employee and a number of adult volunteers. Two youth were present and care was taken to ensure that they did not consume any alcoholic beverage. No Scout uniforms were worn."

 

This would, of course, have required the council to stand up to these two mothers and support their DE.

 

Do I misunderstand how the law is interpreted?

[acco40]

Just to reiterate what many have already indicated.

 

Alcohol is treated like tobacco (a controlled substance) in that adults may consume but not in the presence of youth members. Uniform on or off is not a issue.

 

Eagle Courts of Honor are organized by the Eagle Scout and his family. While true that many units have long standing traditions, the ECOH is still a family event.

 

As a Scoutmaster, if I was asked to participate in an ECOH where alcohol was being served in the presence of Scouts, I would decline.

 

Not to highjack this thread but a few years ago, our troop attended church services at our CO (at Episcopal church) for Scout Sunday. It just so happens, that no current members of our troop are members of that church. When communion was held, we were all asked to participate and all of the Scouts and Scouters - while in uniform, did consume alcohol.

 

The Boy Scouts of America prohibits the use of alcoholic beverages and controlled substances at encampments or activities on property owned and/or operated by the Boy Scouts of America, or at any activity involving participation of youth members.

 

Adult leaders should support the attitude that young adults are better off without tobacco and may not allow the use of tobacco products at any BSA activity involving youth participants.

 

All Scouting functions, meetings, and activities should be conducted on a smoke-free basis, with smoking areas located away from all participants.

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah, I'm goin' to refrain from commenting on the vagaries of criminal law with respect to alcohol. Suffice to say some folks are still livin' in da Prohibition Era mindset, and some legislators occasionally listen to their shrieking without givin' thought to what they're writin' into law.

 

I think jblake and scoutldr have the right of this. Sorry, eh, but an Eagle Court of Honor is a unit scouting function. If yeh pick up your scoutin' literature, you will see that it is to be planned by the unit committee and run by the unit. It is most emphatically not a parent-run event. Nor should it be! The youth and his parents should be guests of honor, not wedding reception workers.

 

Plus makin' that clear saves yeh from all kinds of grief, whether it's alcohol or tobacco or firearms. Or just the unfortunate silliness of parents competin' with each other to throw da biggest bash for their kid.

 

Yah, yah, I know. In lots of units around the country there has developed a tradition of the parents planning & runnin' the ECOH for their son. It works OK some of the time if everyone's on the same page, and it saves the youth leaders and scouters from the work. Maybe it even gets parents who never volunteered before to finally do somethin' . As a technique, it has its attractions, like a siren song. It can work OK.

 

I just wouldn't recommend it, eh? There's a raft of good reasons the BSA literature keeps the ECOH as a unit activity. ScoutDad2001 is unfortunately learnin' one of 'em.

 

Beavah

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Would you mind posting your reference that the Eagle Court of Honor is a unit function? I have been looking and have not found such a thing. That is not to infer it doesnt exist, I would just like to know where it is.

[Bob White]

Nothing says that it has to be a unit function in order for alcohol to be prohibity. he policy states "any activity were youth members are present"

 

Does a Court of honor have youth members present? I would have to believe that it must.

 

But if you want evidence that it is a scouting activity there are numerous locations for that including the Boy Scout Handbook, The Troop Committee Guide, The Advancement Committee Guide, The Troop Program Resources manual just to name a few.

[OldGreyEagle]

I was wrong

 

I was looking at an Eagle Court of Honor as being different than a Troop Court of Honor, but upon reflection, its the same thing. The Troop I serve has a tradition of having Eagle Courts of Honor separate and apart from Troop Courts of Honor and I was drawing a distinction between the two and I should not.

 

I do think that if a family has an Eagle Court of Honor in its home and elects to serve adult beverages, I am not sure how to stop them. Troop adults can leave, but to tell someone that in their own home they are enjoined from serving alcohol due to BSA policy is not an argument I want to make.

 

And to be sure I understand, so its my sisters confirmation. All the cousins are there, from all over the place. The adults have a beer keg and the kids have a brand new garbage can filled with soda soaking in ice water. My parents are criminals? Hold the phone, we better build bigger prisons and quick

[NeilLup]

"I do think that if a family has an Eagle Court of Honor in its home and elects to serve adult beverages, I am not sure how to stop them. Troop adults can leave, but to tell someone that in their own home they are enjoined from serving alcohol due to BSA policy is not an argument I want to make"

 

The methods are exceedingly simple but potentially very painful:

 

1) The Troop has a policy -- no Eagle Courts of Honor in parent's homes or

 

2) The Troop has a clear understanding with the parents that the ECOH is a Scouting function. The guidelines of the Guide to Safe Scouting will be followed. If they are not, the Troop adults will not attend, their children will not attend and the Eagle medal, presentation kit, etc. will not be made available.

 

3) If the Troop has this understanding and the parents violate it, all the Troop adults leave. The Scoutmaster calls together the PLC on the spot and asks the the SPL to ask the PLs to gather their patrol members together and meet outside the front door of the house. The Scouts are told "We are exceedingly sorry, but alcohol started to be served and that is not permitted at a Scouting function. We now need to make arrangements for you to get home. If your parents are here, we will get them and if they are comfortable, you can return inside. We Troop adults will not."

 

Will this create a "nuclear holocaust" in the Troop? Probably. It is a real test of "A Scout is brave." But I'm quite willing to bet that it would only happen once.

 

To argue that an Eagle Court of Honor is not a Scouting function is pettifoggery of the highest order. It would be like arguing that the presentation of the Congressional Medal of Honor is not a military function.

 

If the parents would want to hold a separate reception, in a separate place, with the plan to serve alcohol clearly stated in advance, that might be another matter. In that case, families can decide whether to attend or not.

[John-in-KC]

It'd sure be nice to get some feedback from ScoutDad2001 on this one, on how folks decided to actually deal with it!

[scoutldr]

Luckily, most of us do not live in NY. Another reason not to.

 

What we do in our troop...immediately after the EBOR, we meet with the Eagle and his parents and explain that the "design" of the ECOH is up to them, while maintaining the dignity and respect that it's due. They can have whatever ceremony they want, ranging from "just mail me the medal" (that's happened), to a full-fledged COH with the mayor, Senator, all the relatives, letters from the POTUS, flag over the Capitol, etc. Then the troop PLC and Committee make it happen. We establish a budget and let the parents know how much the troop can contribute towards it. At no time do we imply it's NOT a troop function and the SM/SPL will not be running the show. This discussion has been valuable, in that in the future we will be conscious of the alcohol issue. If the parents want to invite everyone to their home afterwards for a pool/keg party, that's on them and the other parents. When the SPL adjourns the ceremony with a benediction and everyone gets up to leave, it's no longer a "Scouting function". Would I attend the party? Sure...in civilian clothes as a guest, not as a host.