Am I over-reacting?

[Crew21_Adv]

gcook1,

 

Greetings!

 

 

I concur with the majority of our fellow forum members.

 

Like in training, sometimes we move from the known into the unknown. Or find an anchor point that the Scouts can relate to, then demonstrate to them a new concept or practice.

 

Frustrations and misunderstandings may allow us to imagine some angry concepts. Establishing personal character, morals, and values prevent us from acting on anger.

 

I can honestly say, I have been disappointed by "back stabbers" at work. Peers that have placed their name on my work. Co-workers that have "mud-slinged" near annual performance time. Did it disappoint me, yes. Would I violently act on those disappointments, no.

 

Back in Psych 101 in college, that is why we have "Law Abiding Citizens", the majority have morals they have developed prevent them from acting selfishly. Of course, very very few youth and adults can differentiate perception and reality, and they may threaten and act violently. (as a fellow poster commented about Columbine)

 

Based off of the positive comments you have made about this specific Life Scout, he may have been making a bad joke to himself, which he did not self edit.

 

This email with the service project you have referred to, went from the Scout to your Troop Advancement Coordinator. It appears to be a threat, it could be a bad joke. It is factual though, there is written text from the Scout's email and would probably still reside on their family computer.

 

Over the years, I have had two Scouts which have made negative and violent comments about myself, which were learned about by fellow Scouters. The violent comments about myself were never reported to law enforcement, but was dealt and discussed with during Troop Committee meetings. They did end with a family a couple of family meetings and apologies.

 

You had asked. Am I over reacting? and What would you do in this situation?

 

I don't believe you or the Advancement Coordinator are over-reacting. I too concur that you should report the comments in the email to higher authorities, to help in a resolution. Whether it is the Troop Committee, Chartering Organization, Scout Executive or your local Law Enforcement, I would support you.

 

It may result in a disturbed youth and detected early. Or, it may be a bad joke, which may quickly be resolved by a family meeting and apology. Probably more of the later.

 

As far as your decision to delay signing off on his project. That is your decision. But the Scoutmaster's signature for the project is different than the signature for the Eagle Scout Advancement Application. The project is to see if it matches the criteria of being a worthwhile project for a beneficiary. The Eagle Application is to determine of the Scout has Scout spirit and worthy of being an Eagle.

 

Now a trivial question, if a Scout may never attain Eagle based on their own character and spirit, why allow them to perform a Service Project. That may be another question for the Scoutmaster to determine.

 

Good Luck in your decision!

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

[Eagledad]

I have had to work with and cooperated with police because of my experience of working with such boys who gave threats at the Virginia Tech level. Real problem kids don't just pop out of nowhere. Just like the Virginia Tech shooter, boys like that have a track record. Typically the SM is very acquainted with these boys and their past, which is why police like to work with them. I would have expected gcook to mention a past if the boy had one. A Scoutmaster Conference is in order and that is about it unless the boys response warrants something more. I would also talk with the parents, but I usually talk with the parents anyways about all my Scoutmaster confrences with their sons.

 

Barry

 

[croushorn]

Zero tolerance. Good thing they didn't have that back in the day as some of us wouldn't be around to read this forum.

[Bob White]

Most likely a poor attempt at humor, a very poor attempt, and a very bad decision.

 

I would ask to meet privately with the scout and his parents. I would calmly explain to the scout that his project suggestion will not be considered at this time due to inappropriate nature of his e-mail. Ask the scout if he can think of what was inappropriate about his note and ask him to explain it to you and his parents.

 

Let him know what bothered you about his choice to include thin in the e-mail. Ask him what he believes would be an appropriate action for him to take at this time.

 

I would let the scout and his parents know that further improper behavior could lead to his removal from the unit.

 

I would thank thenm for their time and recopmment the scout wait a few weeks before resubmitting a proposal.

[Gold Winger]

How many times have people lectured here that cannot play judge when it comes to child abuse and that we need to report it? This really isn't any different.

 

What if you go to have a nice sit down with him and he jumps you and sticks a needle in your arm? What if he shoots you, his family and the detective you invited to frighten him?

 

Come on people, this is the 21st century, get with the program. In any situation where you are unsure of what to do, call the authorities because that is the safe thing to do. Who cares if you ruin people's lives over what might really be a hill of beans. Don't think. Don't try to take care of anything by yourself. Call the police. Let them overreact, possibly arrest the boy and toss him in the clink for the night where he can become a sex toy for thugs. He apparently has access to dangerous chemical so SWAT and HAZMAT need to be involved.

[acco40]

Whoa Nelly! The first person I would have a discussion with is not the Scout but with the advancement coordinator. The comment was not addressed to you and I don't know (and possibly you don't know?) what type of relationship this Scout has with the advancement chair.

 

There was a Scout in our unit that had what I would call an unusual relationship with his father. He was the oldest child and only son. His father was a rather jovial type always wise cracking and fooling around but a good hearted and good natured man. They father and son had more of a friend to friend relationship in their banter. The son would call the dad "fat", dad call his son a "jackass" and on and on. It was acceptable in their household and the son never used that type of language with the other adults or Scouts. But as you can guess many of the adults did not want their sons exposed to this type of behavior. As the Scoutmaster I was aware of their concerns but also aware my limitations in interferring with what some would call a family matter. My tactic was to let the Scout and father know that how they communicated with each other was their own business but when done around the other Scouts they should be aware that many parents did not want their sons to emulate that behavior and try and tone it down so to speak.

 

Well, before I'd get too ruffled about the paycheck/cyanide comments, I want to make sure I understood the dynamics between those individuals first.

[Beavah]

Holy Smoke! Involvin' law enforcement??! Zero tolerance??!

 

Take a deep breath people!

 

Once as a younger man dealin' with a problem client I typed the rough equivalent of "WHEREAS, the plaintiff is an XXXX..." late at night in a moment of pique. My supervisor happily proofread the document and came by to let me know that while what I wrote was probably true, it really didn't make the best argument .

 

I think yeh apply the Golden Rule here, eh? How many times has each of us messed up and made a comment that wasn't received well by its audience? A joke that got interpreted as off-color or demeaning? A choice of words that in a different context might be considered harassment by someone who had a "zero tolerance" mentality? Mutterin' under our breath about our mothers-in-law and bein' accidentally overheard?

 

Start by assumin' this was a comment that someone just forgot to delete before sendin' the document.

Continue by assumin' this was teenage humor. There's a reason we call such things "sophomoric" eh?

 

If yeh know the kid, and knowing the kid you've allowed him to be a scout in your troop who you approved for Life rank and is ready to go for Eagle, then to my mind there is just no way you can come to an "involve law enforcement" choice as square one. If yeh thought the kid was a problem, yeh should have been actin' way before this. If you didn't act because you've never thought the kid was that kind of a problem, this ain't enough to bust the threshold.

 

Wait 'til you've calmed down. Talk to the AC and get his take on it. Talk to a few other adults in your unit and get their perspective, since they know the lad better than us internet folk. Then have a SM conference, let him know your disappointment, see what he says. After that make a reasonable decision accordin' to the Golden Rule. Along the way, give da parents a heads-up.

 

For everyone else, involvin' law enforcement is not a way to help a boy or a family. By and large it's a step yeh take when it's necessary to protect others at the expense of the boy and the family. You are goin' to cause them serious grief and expense. If your interest is in gettin' help for a lad, there are lots of better ways of goin' about it, beginning with havin' a sit-down with parents, helpin' 'em with a referral to counselors or child psychologists/psychiatric help, etc. If yeh don't know how to make those referral contacts yourself, do your duty and go talk to someone who does.

 

Beavah

 

[Gold Winger]

I'm calling Homeland Security now! They'll get to the bottom of this!

[Twocubdad]

Maybe not the police, but I would want to involve someone above my pay grade. SE would be an obvious choice. Perhaps a school or church counselor could help. We have a Scouter who is also a cop. I would be comfortable involving him off the record. You can always go to the police formally, but it's hard to unring that bell.

 

What are the boys parents like? Do you feel like they would be supportive or dismissive? Their attitude and involvement would make a difference to me.

[Bob White]

No gcook1 you aren't over-reacting but it seems a number of others are.

 

 

[frank10]

Call his bluff... Approve his project and see if anything turns up under your chair. If you find a pay check call the cops ASAP. If not, it must have been bad humor after all.

[Stosh]

Yep, it's a crap-shoot. Some will over-react, some won't react at all or not enough and some will be just plain lucky. But be prepared to live with your decision, a lifetime is along time to think about the what-if's.

 

Stosh

[Gold Winger]

Especially for the stupid kid sitting in jail for threatening to murder someone.

[NeilLup]

I missed this earlier, but here would be my suggestion. I understand that it has gone now to the boy's father and may be too late but here goes.

 

Once upon a time, I was general manager of a small division of a very large company. There was a story that one of the other general managers had become extremely angry with a supplier and had written an absolutely flaming letter to the supplier. The president of that supplier had simply written to the president of our very large fortune 500 company enclosing the letter and said "Apparently someone has gotten ahold of your stationery and is sending out letters like this using the name of your general manager. You may want to find out how that stationery went missing."

 

I would do the same thing here. I would call in the Scout and tell him that someone had gotten ahold of his Eagle project material and had sent it in including some threats. Then say that it's a good thing that it made it only to you because if it had gone to the police, whoever sent it could have gotten him in very serious trouble.

 

I did some really dumb things when I was younger which today would likely have, as a minimum, gotten me on some very serious meds. We were allowed to do things like that and fail and learn. The fact that our nation is so concerned with terrorism now doesn't make teen agers any more mature.

 

We are, in my opinion, in Scouting to teach, not to punish.

[NJCubScouter]

NeilLup, I agree that the idea is to teach, not to punish. (Actually I would say that making sure that everyone is safe comes first, but this thread has beaten that into the ground, so let's leave that aside.) But as for your specific suggestion, I think it is indeed too late for that. The Scout's father has acknowledged that the Scout did it, so the Scout will know that the SM knows that the Scout did it. Acting as if the SM believes that someone tampered with the application will just make the SM look foolish, because everybody knows the SM doesn't believe that. Even if that was not the case, my preference is usually for the direct approach. "Joe, please look at this paragraph in your application; did you write that?" And go on from there.