Advancement quiz questions

[Bob White]

Firequencher

Perhaps you did not take notice of the title of the publication? It is The Advancement Committee POLICIES and PROCEDURES.

 

Everything in it is an official BSA advancement POLICY or PROCEDURE.

 

 

[PeteM]

You can always check it out here:

 

http://tinyurl.com/Advancement-Guide

 

Pete

[acco40]

RE: The old "active participation" bugaboo. You (and many others) have stated that a unit may not levy attendance requirements to determine active participation for a Scout. True of false...A unit may set an attendance or participation measurement to determine if a scout is "active" in the unit? Your response was that this was a false statement. In our unit, I set participation expectations. This requirement is explained in The Boy Scout Handbook, pg 169 as TO GAIN FULL ADVANTAGE of all Scouting has to offer, you need to be present when things are happening. Take part in meetings, in planning activities, and in the fun of adventures. If youre there, you can do your part to make your patrol and troop a success. However, it does not state specific attendance levels. I do set an attendance level as a gatekeeper (it happens to be set at 50%). What I mean by "gatekeeper" is that if a Scout falls below that level of participation, he needs to contact me (the Scoutmaster) to discuss the situation. In the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures it mentions that a Scout will be considered active in his unit if he is (skipping parts 1 & 2) engaged by his unit leadership on a regular basis (informed of unit activities through Scoutmaster conference or personal contact). I maintain, that if I don't see a Scout for a period of time, his participation level falls below 50% and no attempt is made by the Scout to seek me out, he is inactive. I make an attempt to seek out the Scout by attending troop meetings, outings, fundraisers, etc. Now if a Scout has a participation level below 50% and does seek me out and thus remains "engaged" by his unit leadership (including his PL) I consider his participation requirement as being met. So the attendance level is not a "requirement" as a stand alone but is used to set expectations.

 

From a Scoutmaster perspective, I like to have SMART goals ( Specific Measurable Achievable Relevant Ttime-bound). Having something concrete, like a 50% participation expectation, is helpful to the Scout and his parents. Yet it still gives me leeway when used as an expectation and not a firm requirement.

 

Now, how does the BSA define "regular"? (This message has been edited by acco40)

[Bob White]

It would seem that the BSA sees it differently than you do. They say that "actively engaged is about the scoutmaster staying in touch with the scout not the scout staying in touch with you.

 

If a scout is absent you should interested in him enough to contact him, or you are being as inactive as the scout.

 

 

[Eamonn]

Hey Bob,

Thanks for the quiz.

I thought I was good! - But still somehow managed to get a few wrong.

Of course I'm blaming the fact that for the past couple of years I have been trying to come to grips with the Sea Scout Manual.

I know it's a very lame excuse!!

I know that there a good many people in the Council I serve who at times do look to me for help and advise.

I really hate to give them the wrong information.

Of course the best thing is always to tell people where the information is and have them look for and find it themselves. Sad thing about doing this is that very often some people see this as not being helpful or think that it's in someway "Stand-offish".

I know in the past you have presented at the PTC.

Did you use this quiz there?

If so was the reaction similar to the reaction that it has received here?

Eamonn.

[evmori]

So if the SM is calling the Scout & leaving messages with no return calls from the Scout & sending the Scout e-mails with no replies is that

Engaged by his unit leadership on a regular basis

(informed of unit activities through Scoutmaster

conference or personal contact, etc.)

even though the Scout is not returning any messages or e-mail the SM has left?

[FScouter]

Every time I look up an unfamiliar word in the dictionary, I always see 2 or 3 others that are interesting and so I learn more than I originally set out to look up.

 

I see one purpose of the quiz to be in getting the wheels turning and the gray matter pulsing and a chance to take a look in the resources and get a fresh point of view, not just on a particular point, but whatever else catches the eye at the same time.

[firequenchers]

Make sure the program at summer camps encompasses Cub Scout, Boy Scout, and Venturing procedures for advancement. The procedures should be established, in writing, by the council advancement committee

in cooperation with the camp director or program director prior to the beginning of camp.

 

The main word in that paragraph is the word SHOULD... that is why there are options. If it says SHALL then there is only one way and tha this way. Legalezzz sorry I deal with too many lawyers in my paying job. Should is a guide and not a rule, now Shall makes it hard fast.

 

YiS,

 

Jeff

[Bob White]

Geez... you have to be kidding firequenchers? Let's hope the lawyers you deal with have a better understanding of the language than you. If you bothered to pick up the Advancment Committee POLICIES and PROCEDURES manual and actually read the passage in its entirity I you would find these words which perhaps you will have an easier time understanding!

" The specific duities are as follows."

 

Yes, Eamonn, I have used some of these questions as well as others in the PTC conferences when I have served on faculty. The intial answers, like here are often, based on incorrect information passsed down through word of mouth for God knows how long.

 

The difference however is, that with the scouters I have worked with, once they see the actual BSA refernce material they quickly realize their error and accept that what is in the BSA reference is correct. No one has ever tried to duck and swerve around the printed word the way so many posters want to do.

 

The determination of some people to hang onto incorrect information and incorrect behavior despite the undeniable evidence offered through the BSA is truly disturbing.

 

As I have said before the biggest problem facing BSA is the way we select and recruit leaders at the local level.

[Twocubdad]

Bob, you want to focus on the list of advance committee responsibilities but ignore the two references which specify that the responsibility for summer camp advancement is to be "in cooperation with" the camping committee, camp director and program director.

 

Of course this is all from the Advancement Committee guidebook, so perhaps it is written for, and from the perspective of, the Advancement committee. What do you want to bet that the literature for the camp staff has a whole lot more to say on the staff's responsibility toward advancement? Could it be that neither group is given absolute authority over the advancement program because they are expected to work together in the interest of the boys? Maybe if the Advancement Chairman and Camping Chairman or Camp Director are as hard-headed and pedantic as some forum members, the Program committee (to which they both report) could get involved.

 

Could it also be that the answers to your questions are -- particularly as they are currently worded -- more than simple, one or two word responses? I would guess they are pretty good conversation starters, but maybe a bit imprecise for a written quiz where folks have a chance to vett every answer. Most of these questions require a few more words to adequately capture the nuances of the program. Then too, perhaps it takes a little experience and wisdom to apply the policies and procedures. And perhaps the policies are not all perfectly lawyered in order to allow wise and experienced Scouters the room to apply them in a way that fits the strengths, weaknesses and resources of their local council.

[Bob White]

Twocubdad

 

I never said that the advancmenrt committee should not cooperate with anyone else in accomplishing their goals and responsibilities. So the passages sayiong that the cooperate with the camp management has no beariung on either the question I asked or the answer to it given in the the BSA references under the heading "Council Advancement Committee Responsibilities"

 

The reference is clear and official and deals with the specific question.

 

As for what conflicting information maight exist somewhere in some manual thet you have not read aI can only off that I produced an official reference that was germain to the question, and you have not. When you actually find a BSA resource with information that is conrary to the the one that actaually exists and was presented her then we can discuss it, Until then you have no evidence to contaradict the official Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual...do you?

 

As far as pedantic, I take it to mean you use it as an insult for those who know rules that either you have not learned or do not agree with, and so rather than find a valid reference for your opiion you choose the short cut of attacking the other persons character or personality.

 

Bear in mind I did not write the manuals, I told you what resource you could find the related in formation in, by your standards a librarian would be pendantic.

 

Unless you can produce another BSA document that has authority over the Advancement committee that counters the information I have presented then you have no other mature choice than to accept the official references I have given you as being correct, and your previous conceptions of the truth are in error and you need to adjust your knowledge of the material.

 

 

[gcnphkr]

evmori and CalicoPenn

 

By your logic I can raise funds (or materials) to support our local Hooter Girl's Daycare and be able to identify myself as being a part of the Boy Scouts to do it (after all it is outside the sphere of scouts). If this is not the case, then please explain why the same reasoning will not apply to the scout working on his Eagle project.

[theysawyoucomin']

Frankly what is most shocking is the way people seem to enjoy the fact that a Scout does not have to be present to win the Eagle award.

 

Being right seems to be more fun than attempting to make it better.

 

 

No where in the Scout book does it say we have to where trousers but we do because it implied that we do.

 

I am going to submit acco's post for review by Council.

 

Things need changing at least that's what 50% of America and one modern day savior say.

[Bob White]

uz2bnowl

 

First...one does not "win" any rank, not even Eagle. A Scout "earns" the rank.

 

Second, they earn the rank by meeting the requirements set by the Boy Scouts of America not by having to meet YOUR requirements.

 

No one says the scout doesn't have to be there, he just doesn't have to be there because YOU want him there.

 

And finally you need to know that your council has no say in the matter. There is not a single person in your council or even a committee in your council with the authority to alter a BSA requirement.

 

Your better bet is to write the National Advancement Committee at the BSA national office..OR maybe just learn the program and how to lead it.

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[eolesen]

Frankly what is most shocking is the way people seem to enjoy the fact that a Scout does not have to be present to win the Eagle award.

 

Being right seems to be more fun than attempting to make it better.

 

 

Sure, a scout has to be present. At least 22-24 months in practice at a minimum.

 

The fastest a Scout can advance from First Class to Eagle is 16 months, plus however long it takes to go from Scout to First class, which is six months to a year on average in the troops I've worked with.

 

If they're not present, they can't complete their POR requirements, the camping merit badge, and other requirements which can't be done if you're a parlour Scout. If requirements were signed off and the Scout wasn't present to do them, that's another issue altogether.

 

I know you have a desire to have older Scouts give back, and so do I. To date, BSA hasn't found a practical way to require that, and I know many before us have pondered the same issue without ever coming to a consensus on how to achieve it.