Advancement quiz questions

[evmori]

Are you claiming that this clause does not apply to scouts working on an Eagle project?

 

If you subscribe to "an Eagle project is outside the scope of Scouting" yes. And, most likely, a Scout working on his Eagle project would be looking for materials for his project, not cash.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[CalicoPenn]

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Read both this and the language in the Eagle Scout Service Leadership Project Workbook carefully.

 

A Scout working on an Eagle Project is raising money to support his project for an outside organization - not to raise funds for an outside organization. It's made very clear that any excess funds must be returned to the donors. Since the Eagle Candidate is not raising funds for an outside organization, he would not be in violation of this rule. Call it a loophole if you want, but the loophole exists. An Eagle Scout candidates project benefits an outside organization. The funds raised benefit his project.

 

And yes, I want to know what BW is considering as a knot (and yes, that includes lashings and whippings (which I missed)).

 

Calico

[firequenchers]

The Council Advancement Committee is responsible for the merit badge and advancement programs at Summer camp.

 

I think that is incorrect, as when a Merit Badger Councilor is in camp for the week, every camp I have ever seen or attended adds that MB if the MBC wantes to teach his skill. I do belive that is up to the Program Director, Camp Commissioner, and the Camp Director to approve. I may be incorrect but I have seen it for happen and the cards always hold up.

 

YiS,

 

Jeff

[firequenchers]

How many total days and nights of camping does a scout need to progress from Scout to Eagle Scout?

 

The Scout only needs 20 days and 20 Nights. Since I am a camping MBC I open there blue card for the camping merit badge as soon as they go on there first camping trip so all the night count for there advancement and there merit badge. So the min is 20 days and nights. I would hope the Scout is in a troop that camps alot more than that before be becomes a Eagle, but you never can tell..

 

Heck we do 30 a year not including summer camps or any high adventure the scout may do.

 

YiS,

 

Jeff

[Bob White]

"The Council Advancement Committee is responsible for the merit badge and advancement programs at Summer camp.

 

I think that is incorrect,..."

 

The Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures Manual Page 5 says otherwise. Besides your personal opinion can you name any BSA manual that contradicts this?

 

"We still await the answer key. I'm still curious to know what is considered the correct answer for knots"

 

The Official Boy scout Handbook refers to the following as knots required for advancement to First Class; Square Knot, two half hitches, Tautline Hitch, Clove Hitch, Timber Hitch, and Bowline Knot.

 

It does not refer to whipping as a knot or lashing as a knot but says that they begin and end with knots. While some individuals may have a different personal opinion, the quiz was specific in stating that BSA resources would be used for the answers. The BSA handbook says that Hitches are Knots.

 

Feel free to look for loop holes (they are not knots either), but unless you can find something in the Boy Scout Handbook that is contrary to this information the correct answer for the questions on knots is 6.

 

 

By the way when it comes to the other questions...if you need to find loop holes then your answer is incorrect. The correct answers are all found in the official resources of the BSA, trying to find loopholes is a weak attempt to keep from admitting that you were wrong in your beliefs. The BSa program is what the BSA says it is, not what you think it is.

 

[evmori]

The BSa program is what the BSA says it is, not what you think it is.

 

Great statement! Now, Bob, since you feel that way, how about giving us the BSA answers & references to those answers instead of what you think it is.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[acco40]

Bob White, a little help please. You scored my responses as 8 out of 18. Now, I'd like to compare my answers to yours (or as you state, the BSA's). The question will be in italics, my answer and comments in plain text and yours is bold.

 

What is the first Rank in Boy Scouts? - Tenderfoot. Common errors on the the other questions. Saying Scout is a rank and counting Palms as ranks So, Bob, you really didn't answer this question so I'm going to assume Tenderfoot is the correct answer. Score = 1/1 correct.

 

What knots are required for a scout earn First Class Rank? Assuming that the Scout is not give "special" advancement requirements - timber (1) & clove hitch (2) for lashings and bowline (3). This assumes that learning to tie the bandages for the first aid requirements are not considered knots. I did not include any Scout, Tenderfoot or 2nd Class requirements (a Scout may transfer in to our troop as a 2nd Class and I would not retest). Thinking Sheet Bend is a required knot. Again, you really didn't answer this question so I'm going to assume three is the correct answer. Score = 2/2 correct.

 

What knots are required for a scout to Earn eagle? Going by the same argument as above - none. Thinking that there are other knots in the camping merit badge or other meritbadges that the scout would need to know for Eagle Huh? Again, no real answer. So I'll assume I'm correct again. Score = 3/3 correct.

 

What is the minimum days and nights of camping that a scout needs to earn First Class? Three. {Since joining, have participated in ten separate troop/patrol activities (other than troop/patrol meetings), three of which included camping overnight.} Adding the days and night required for Tenderfoot, Second class and first Class together. There are only three night total since joining Finally, an answer from BW! We can surely see we agree. Score 4/4 correct.

 

How many total days and nights of camping does a scout need to progress from Scout to Eagle Scout? 20 - They need to earn the camping merit badge. Adding the lower rank camping nights to the Camping merit badge and saying that the minimum ims 23 or 26 Again, so I now know the answer is not 23 or 26 so I'll assume I am correct again. Score 5/5 correct.

 

How long does a scout have to finish a partial merit badge? Forever is the correct answer. You're probably looking for the "before he ages out (18 years of age for most)" answer. Many people still believe a merit badge must be finished in 2 years. Again, you provide was is not the answer so, if you forgive my tongue in cheek answer, I'll give myself a 6/6 correct score.

 

Can a parent be a merit badge counselor for their son? Yes, if a MBC. Most scouters have no idea what the rules for merit badges are. Parents can be counselors to their sons. Another definitive answer from BW! I like my answer better, but we are in agreement. Score 7/7.

 

True of false...A unit may set an attendance or participation measurement to determine if a scout is "active" in the unit? False. Many do. In our unit, I set participation expectations. This requirement is explained in The Boy Scout Handbook, pg 169 as TO GAIN FULL ADVANTAGE of all Scouting has to offer, you need to be present when things are happening. Take part in meetings, in planning activities, and in the fun of adventures. If youre there, you can do your part to make your patrol and troop a success. However, it does not state specific attendance levels. FALSE FALSE FALSE So in agreement again, Score 8/8 correct.

 

True or false...A unit can set an attendance or participation measurement to determine Scout Spirt? True. They can, but they may not. FALSE FALSE FALSE If you read my response, they may not I understand the intent. But, unfortunately I know many unit do so I believe your answer is incorrect (see my opening statement about the difference between "can" and "may"). So I give myself a score of 9/9 correct.

 

Who sits on a board of review for the ranks or Tenderfoot through First Class? Troop committee members. Some adults think that other scouts serv onthe board, a practice that changed decades ago No direct answer from BW so, I'll give myself another smiley face, score 10/10 correct.

 

Except for merit badges who can sign a scout's advancement requirements? The Scoutmaster must be in charge of advancement in the troop [Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures, p. 25]. The Scoutmaster Handbook states that a Scouts leader may sign off on requirements. So, whomever the Scoutmaster designates as "leader" may hold this responsibility. It is highly recommended that the Scoutmaster sign off for Scout Spirit and hold Scoutmaster Conferences. Anyone the scoutmaster approves can sign for advancement, even other scouts We state the same answer - whomever the Scoutmaster assigns. Score 11/11 correct.

 

Can a scout sign his own handbook? Yes. May he sign his own handbook? Again, the Scoutmaster must be in charge of advancement in the troop [Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures, p. 25]. The Scoutmaster Handbook states that a Scouts leader may sign off on requirements. So, given the above, I postulate that the Scoutmaster could allow this but I would not. I look at a leader as someone else - youth our adult. Even the Scout himself can sign as in the case of Scout Spirit Again, we are not in disagreement, if given the authority by the SM, he can (and even may). Score 12/12.

 

How many elective merit badges must a scout complete to earn the Star Rank? 2 (four Eagle required plus two others which may be other Eagle required). there are no elective merit badges required a Scout can earn Star and Life using ONLY Eagle required merit badges if he chooses. While I did state 2, I also state that he may use Eagle required as the other two so I think I get at least partial credit. Score 13/13.

 

Can a youth identify himself as a Boy Scout when seeking donations for an Eagle Project? Yes. May he identify himself as a Boy Scout? Yes. It is understood that the Eagle Project is done outside the sphere of Scouting but if asked, yes he may identify himself as such. Should he wear his field uniform (old habits die hard, I hate the term "official") when seeking donations for his Eagle Project? No, unless he is selling Trail's End popcorn, takes the "cash back" option as his prize and uses that for his project! NO, A person cannot seek donations for an outside organization using the name and image of the BSA unless it is a BSA activity approved by the council scout executive or the national office of the BSA. Eagle Scout projects are "outside the sphere of scouting" Again, I know what a Scout should do and what the rules are but I disagree with your answer BW. A Scout can - I've witnessed it happen! Score 14/14.

 

For which merit badge can a scoutmaster automatically counsel because he is a Scoutmaster? None. You must be a registerd anhd approved counselor for each mb you counsel, even if you are a SM. We are in agreement. Score is now an impressive 15/15.

 

Who is responsible for training unit leaders about the BSA advancement program? The Scoutmaster!! The advancement chair (committee) encourges the scout to advance, keeps advancement records, works with the librarian and scribe but the Scoutmaster is in charge of advancement. The Committee training chair (Training Coordinator) should make sure opportunities for training, training materials, training status, etc. is all available. The District Advancement Committee is responsible for training units regarding the BSA advancement program. Okay, I messed up. I have a bad habit of always looking within the unit. So, I go down to 15/16.

 

Who is responsible for the merit badge program at a local summer camp? Program Director. The Council Advancement Committee is responsible for the merit badge and advancement programs at Summer camp. Yeah, I debated this. I know the Council Advancement Committee was the high approver for what badges could be offered, approval of MBCs etc. but the Program Director was the "boots on the ground" so to speak. Again, when it gets outside the unit, I falter. Score trending downward to 15/17.

 

How many personal references must a scout supply on his Eagle Application? The application has slots for parents/guardians, religious, educational, employer if any), two other. The requirement itself just states "List the names of individuals who know you personally and would be willing to provide a recommendation on your behalf." My guess, and it is just a guess, is only one. The scout must provide the names and contact information for 6 references if he is employed, 5 if he is not. I knew that he didn't have to provide anything other than a list but I do know that a parent can be listed as the religious reference so I was thinking on the lines of if a child was home schooled, one parent, not employed, etc. he could state the name of one adult only is an extreme circumstance. Again, I know what is on the application so we are arguing semantics. But ... Score is now 15/18.

 

How many references must the scout obtain for the Eagle board of review? Same as above. ZERO, it is the council/district advancement committee who is responsible for collecting the references. You cannot postpone or cancel and Eagle board of review for lack of any or all references. I just screwed that up. I knew the responsibility did not lie with the Scout. Final Score 15/19. Now BW, tell me why you feel I got an 8?

 

(This message has been edited by acco40)

[CalicoPenn]

This will be my final post on this subject, as I don't like beating my head against a dense brick wall.

 

To say a whipping (knot), a square lashing, a diagonal lashing and a shear lashing aren't knots because the Boy Scout handbook doesn't mention that they are, in fact, knots, is like saying the sky isn't blue if the Boy Scout Handbook doesn't say it's blue. Lashings are knots. Whipping (knots) are knots. They meet every definition of the term knot, and if you ask a knotmaker, they will tell you they are knots. The Boy Scout Handbook even shows how to tie these knots, even though it may not call them knots. That the BSA has failed to accurately portray these knots as knots, does not make them any less than a knot, though it speaks volumes about just how accurate the Boy Scouts are in conveying knowledge and skills. The question was "What knots are required for First Class" It wasn't "What knots identified as knots by the BSA are required for First Class" or ""What basic knots are required for First Class" (lashings and whipping would be an advanced knot, not a basic knot).

 

The fundraising clause very specifically states that Boy Scouts cannot be used as solicitors of money for their chartered organization, the local council, or other organizations". Those words have very specific meanings, and an example is even given of Boy Scouts ringing the bell for Salvation Army bucket collections. Soliciting money means asking for cash donations without real goods in exchage. My using the word loophole was unfortunate - I was being lazy, and was trying to figure out another way to get the point across. In fact, what I originally stated is not a loophole at all, because this policy DOES NOT APPLY IN THE FIRST PLACE. Eagle Scout candidates can identify themselves as Boy Scouts when soliciting donations for their projects - they are NOT soliciting money, they are soliciting donations of labor and materials (though cash may be donated - it is converted into materials - excess cash MUST be returned to the donor - it cannot be given to the project beneficiary). Just as Popcorn Sales do not violate this rule (goods are exchanged for cash payment), neither do Scouts working on their Eagle Scout rank.

 

The lesson to take from this is that just because someone claims to be speaking with authority, using Boy Scout resources, (and passive/aggressively claiming that if you don't accept that what the person is telling you is absolute gospel, then you aren't delivering the Boy Scout Program) doesn't mean that person is correct. There are interpretations that differ (what is an elective merit badge for Star), there are different readings of rules (eg. what the fundraising clause on the Unit Money Earning Application means - is it a total ban, or is it a specific ban), there are even ommissions of facts in the resources (identification of knots), and even conflicts in BSA resources themselves (some resources indicate that Scouts do not sign off on their own rank requirements, some indicate that it is possible for a Scout to do so).

 

You need to make up your own mind about what is accurate and what isn't. It's been said by some already that the questions on this quiz leave an awful lot of room for interpretation.

 

CalicoPenn

 

 

 

 

[Bob White]

acco

 

You are right about Tederfoot 1/1

 

required knots according to the handbook; 6 1/2

 

Total knots required throgh Eagle; 6 1/3

 

minimum days and nights through 1st Class; 3 2/4

 

Days and nights camping through Eagle; 20 3/5

 

Time alotted to complete a parttial mertit badge;18th birthday 4/6

 

Can a parent ve a merit badge counselor? Yes 5/7

 

adding attendance or participation to active memebership; False 6/8

 

adding attendance or participation to Scout Spirit; False 7/9

(it doesn't matter how many units you know who do it wrong, the answers are still false.)

 

Who ever the Scoutmaster assigns: 8/10 (they are not required however to be a leader)

 

Who sits on a board of review through 1st Class: Troop Committeee members 9/11

 

Can a scout sign his own book: Yes 10/12

 

How many elective meritbadges must a scout have for the rank of Star: None 10/13

 

Can a scout identify himself as a Boy Scout when soliciting donations for an Eagle Scout project: No 10/14

 

Which Merit badges acan a Scoutmaster automatically counsel because he is a Scoutmaster; none 11/15

 

Who is responsible for training the unit leaders about the advancement program: The Council /district advancement committee 11/16

 

Who is responsible for the advancement program at Suimmer camps: The Council Advancement committee 11/17

 

How many personal references must a scout give: 5, 6 if he is employed

11/18

 

How many must be at the bor: None 11/19 57%

 

Why did I give you 8, two reasons 1) because in your original post you gave different answers than this time. 2)I was mistaken, I looked again and you actually had 9 incorrect answers on your first post 10/19

 

 

[acco40]

Because sometimes, somebody has just got to beat that dead horse ...

 

required knots according to the handbook; 6 Again, semantics. One only needs 3 knots for 1st Class. Besides, the actual question was what knots, not how many. I identified three - timber, clove and bowline. Yes, there are other knots which are required for Scout and Tenderfoot (square, two-half hitches, taut-line) but again, I did not include any Scout & Tenderfoot requirements (a Scout may transfer in to our troop as a 2nd Class and I would not retest).

 

Using the same argument for Eagle, I still stick by zero.

 

If one uses an Eagle required as his "two other" merit badges are they considered "elective?" Well, the Scout elected to use those and he could have elected to use any other badge so again semantics, not a misunderstanding of the program.

 

A Scout can identify themselves as a Scout when soliciting for donations for his Eagle project. I have proof! Two Scouts in our troop have done just that! Should they? No, unless ... Again, read my answer and tell me which part of my response was incorrect.

 

 

 

[Bob White]

Whether he transfers or not he still has to have tied 6 knots to get to First Class; Square Knot, Two Half Hitches, Tautline Hitch, Clove Hith Timber Hitch, and Bowline knot. 6 knots! All scouts must complete all requirements of the Scout Badge, Tenderfoot Rank, Second Class Rank and First Class Rank in order to achieve First Class, What troop they did that in is irrelevant. If he had come to your troop with his First Class knot requirement completed you you then say that the nunber of of knots he needed for First Class was ZERO?

 

Why you want to make this difficult is just really strange. The correct answers have nothing to do with your odd scenarios. The answers are all in basic BSA resources.

 

 

 

 

[firequenchers]

I guess I was correct on the 20 days and 20 nights of camping.

 

I was in a meeting at council today. I asked if the Council Advancement Committee must approve all Merit Badges at Council run camps. So they called national to ask, since no one knew the correct answer. National advised, we were on speaker phone where we could all hear. We were advised that a Camp accreditted must have that done, but since alot of camps are not accreditted they can do as taught at National Camping School. Since I am not attending NCS until next year at Philmont I am not sure what is taught. We had 7 NCS grads in the room and they all said it is normal operations to add merit badges where there is a MBC in camp that wants to teach that week. I will ask the NCS staff and see, since I am going to be a Camp Director.

 

YiS,

 

Jeff

[Bob White]

Two questions, Did anyone at your council look at the Advancemnent Committee Policies and Procedures Manual. You cannot deny that is what it says.

 

Next, since you were personally involved in this conversation you surely paid attention to the name of the person you spoke with. Who was it?

[firequenchers]

I did not pay attention to the name of person at National. I will call the SE in the morning and ask him who it was. But I was just reading the accreditation requirments on the web and I did not even see that in the packet, but I only skimmed it.

 

There are Rules and there are guidelines, I belive the Advancement manual in a guide and not a rule book. I need to read the exact line and see if it say they SHALL approve or they SHOULD that is a large difference.

 

Jeff

[evmori]

We finally got the answers! Now how about some real BSA references to go along with those answers! Cause all we got now is Bob's interpretations & the one about the Eagle donations is not accurate.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10