Advancement quiz questions

[Gold Winger]

" Considering that I know how to read, and have read the handbook many times, the Scout badge still qualifies as a rank in my book."

 

Sorry, I'm with BeeDub here. Scout is not a rank. The Scout badge was created to give boys something to wear on their shirt to show that they had met the joining requirements.

 

People who don't know any better might call it a rank but that doesn't make it one.

[GKlose]

My newly crossed-over son was working on memorizing his handbook, shortly after it was presented to him, and he pointed out that Arrow of Light recipients were to be automatically awarded the Scout badge (it's in the handbook).

 

The SM had a different idea..."no, you have to go through a Board of Review...it's like a test" (since then, I've found out that yes, they treat BoRs as tests, with questions ranging from all previous ranks). I did manage to point out to the CC that only an SM conference was listed under joining requirements, not a BoR, so they didn't grill him.

 

Unit leaders have all kinds of funny ideas about what is required and what isn't. Tribal knowledge and folklore seems to play a big part in that, and to me some of the worst offenders appear to be some of those that have been around a long time, and didn't necessarily see the need for training.

[CalicoPenn]

Jet - how could you cover this at your ASM meeting? How do you know what the answers are, and what the real answers are? We still haven't seen a posting of the "answer key" - and there are some legitimate challenges to some of the answers provided.

 

Heck, I'm still waiting to see what the knot answers are.

 

How about it BW - post your answer key.

 

Calico

[FireKat]

Bob quoted: "Here is what the BSA says . Page 31 of the Boy Scout Handbook, "TENDERFOOT is the first rank you will earn as a Boy Scout""

As stated by others you can quibble on this for a long time. Alot depends on emphasis place in which words.

Tenderfoot  is the first rank you will earn as a Boy Scout.  This says to the reader that tenderfoot is the first rank.

Tenderfoot  is the first rank you will earn as a Boy Scout. This reads that it may not be the first rank in scouting but just the first the boy has to earn, not just have the rank given to him.

When reading things much can be interperted by what the reader put emphasis on. The same can be said about spoken words. Take politics, pick on one or two words and change the whole meaning.

It is up to nat'l to say but I seem to recall other BSA documentations that refer to Scouter as a rank. No, I don't have sources handy but I will try to find them.

[Gold Winger]

" he pointed out that Arrow of Light recipients were to be automatically awarded the Scout badge (it's in the handbook)."

 

It's not automatic. It requires "approval of his Scoutmaster."

 

We found that most of the WDLs weren't doing their jobs and that most of our new Scouts had no clue about the Scout Law, handclasp, square knots or anything else.

[FScouter]

That's been my experience as well, which is why I always take 3-4 minutes to go down the list of requirements with the boy and check them off one by one. It sets the tone and shows the boy how advancment works. Read the requirement, turn to the indicated page in the book, learn it, demonstrate and be tested on it, and get it signed off. Then have a SM conference.

 

If the boy already learned how to tie a square knot, and knows what the two stars represent, etc. that is great; he can demonstrate and get signed off in short order. Non-AOL boys may have to practice some and demonstrate at the next meeting.

[gcnphkr]

Jet - how could you cover this at your ASM meeting? How do you know what the answers are, and what the real answers are? We still haven't seen a posting of the "answer key" - and there are some legitimate challenges to some of the answers provided. BW posted them the other day.

It appears that only programmers and marketers refer to "Scout" as a rank--not the most reliable sources for this definition. The discussion on the use of "Boy Scout" or some other such representation is clear as well. The fundraising form and other policies on fundraising prevent the scout (or anyone else) from representing themselves as an agent of the BSA when soliciting for donations. To claim that because it is outside the sphere of scouting so the rules don't apply is silly. I couldn't wear my uniform if I was raising money for the soccer team.

[evmori]

The fundraising form and other policies on fundraising prevent the scout (or anyone else) from representing themselves as an agent of the BSA when soliciting for donations. To claim that because it is outside the sphere of scouting so the rules don't apply is silly. I couldn't wear my uniform if I was raising money for the soccer team.

 

The policies on fundraising state if the Council Ececutive Committee give you the OK to wear you uniform while fundraising, then you can.

 

What I stated was since some feel an Eagle project is "outside the sphere of Scouting" Scouting forms aren't necessary so the rules governing those forms don't apply.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Gold Winger]

"Tenderfoot is the first rank you will earn as a Boy Scout. This reads that it may not be the first rank in scouting but just the first the boy has to earn, not just have the rank given to him."

 

Let's turn to page 14 in the handbook, "The Ranks of Scouting." "The first three are Tenderfoot, Second Class, and First Class."

 

 

[gcnphkr]

The policies on fundraising state if the Council Executive Committee give you the OK to wear you uniform while fundraising, then you can.

Do you know of any scouts working on a project that have received this? Or of an Executive Committee that has granted a blanket, "go forth in your uniform and solicit" to the Life Scouts in the council?

[Gold Winger]

Doesn't matter if they have, it only that matters that they may.

[gcnphkr]

So the short answer is "No, unless he gets permission from the Council Executive Committee".

[evmori]

Yup the short answer is no. But if an Eagle project is "outside the scope of Scouting" the Unit Money Earning form isn't needed therefore and rules & regs governing it don't apply.

 

If a unit wants to sell candy door-to-door as a unit fundraiser they must completed the form & ask the Council Executive Committee if they may be allowed to wear their uniforms while selling candy door-to-door.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[CalicoPenn]

The short answer is not "No". The short answer is YES.

 

The Unit Money Earning Application DOES NOT apply to an Eagle Scout candidate. The Eagle Scout Candidate is therefore, not subject to the limitations listed in the Unit Money Earning Application. And to head off further argument, ask yourself this simple question - since when is an Eagle Scout candidate a Unit? The Unit Money Earning Application applys to UNITS, not to Individuals. Individuals are covered under other rules.

 

The relevant rules for Eagle Scouts is found in the Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Handbook (an official BSA publication). It states that a project can't be a fundraiser, that excess funds be returned to the donors, and that it must be made clear to donors that the funds raised benefit the project sponsor, not the BSA. It does not say anywhere in this publication that any other rules apply, or that a Scout cannot identify himself as a Scout when asking for donations for his Eagle project.

 

And no, Bobwhite has not given us the answers - he has told us what he believes the common errors are and expects us to suss out what the correct answer is. We still need his answer key, and there will be answers that he claims are absolutely correct that he has wrong (like the Eagle fundraising question) because he is coming up with the answer from the wrong source, or is interpreting words in a question in a way that is questionable (such as Elective Merit Badges for Star - his answer could be correct if Eagle Scout is considered some kind of graduation rank - but Eagle isn't a graduation rank. All ranks are considered separate ranks. They may need to be earned in a sequence, and there may be some pre-req's that apply from a previous rank, but every rank is considered, by the BSA, as an end-point rank. Advancement is a method, not a requirement. Every Star Scout can stop earning ranks beyond Star if they so choose - and that makes the 2 non-Eagle required merit badges, elective badges - even if the Scout elected to earn two other Eagle required merit badges).

 

We still await the answer key. I'm still curious to know what is considered the correct answer for knots (beyond "Thinking Sheet Bend is a required knot ").

 

Calico

[gcnphkr]

Just because a rule is referenced on the Unit Money-Earning Application and the application is not applicable to a Eagle project does not mean that the referenced rule does not apply is situations apart from the application. In this case the rule is:

 

The BSA Rules and Regulations state, Youth members shall not be permitted to serve as solicitors of money for their chartered organizations, for the local council, or in support of other organizations. Adult and youth members shall not be permitted to serve as solicitors of money in support of personal or unit participation in local, national, or international events.

That is being quoted from the Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America, Article XI, Section 1, Clause 2. Are you claiming that this clause does not apply to scouts working on an Eagle project? That the most readily available documentation of this is on the Unit Money-Earning Application does not change the rule.

 

Are you thinking that "knots" are meant to include lashings and whippings? Or are you questioning the inclusion of the square knot because it in a requirement for becoming a scout not for advancing?