Advancement quiz questions

[gcnphkr]

 

Troops that camp every month often complain about the poor attendance at these activities. They should realize that one of the reasons of the poor attendance could very well be that there is too much camping. I know troops whose meetings consist of nothing that cleaning up from one campout, planning the menu and packing for the next campout.

>(OO)<

I don't know why this never dawned on me. The only way a patrol could go on a patrol campout would be to squeeze in a second one in a month. We were frustrated by low turn out, 20-25% at about half the campouts but instead of cutting back on the camping trip we started splitting them, with a base camp and a backpacking trip. This resulted in 15 different troop camping activities this year for 34 nights (3 long term camps, one scout that crossed over in March that has 21 nights in already). This doesn't count the trips to go work on Eagle projects (4 more nights) or OA events (5 nights) or our APC (2 nights) or the older scouts who went to NYLT or staffed summer camps. It's not that they don't want to camp, they are just burned out! Stupid, stupid stupid. Thank you.

Thinking back to my idealized youth, we would go to one long term camp, Spring and Fall Camporees (why we do two of those I've never understood), a canoe trip, a snow camp, and maybe two more. We would do other things the rest of the time, generally as patrols with no adults.APC should be interesting this year.

[Bob White]

quibble or disagree with the answers as you wish, but understand they are not my answers, they are the BSA program as found in the official resources of the BSA.

 

There really is no arguably point about them. The variable is whether or not you choose to follow the BSA program as you agreed to when you signed your membership application.

 

I can quibble whether or not the speed limit on my street is too low, but that does not change what it is. So the question becomes do I follow the rule or not, and not is the rule right.

 

Because even if I do not know the speed limit I am still responsible for following it. Ignorance of the rule is not the rules fault.

 

 

[dan]

Bob White

I disagree with these statements.

 

"but understand they are not my answers"

"they are the BSA program as found in the official resources of the BSA"

 

What you posted is your interpretation of the official resources, they are your answers, not the BSAs.

 

I know you think you are correct in your interpretation and I think I am correct in mine.

[Knot Head]

Bob and all,

 

Could we start a list of other urban myths and troop traditions and expand on the quiz? I could use this at new Parent night after crossover. I'm sure we could come up with a good list of myths and legends.

 

T/F: The reason you must wear your class A to and from a trip is that BSA insurance is not in effect unless you are wearing your uniform.

 

T/F: It is acceptable to retest a scout during a BOR for any requirements up to and including the rank he is before the BOR for. In other words you can make a scout demonstrate or recite items from TF to FC if he is up for Star.

 

T/F: It is okay to finish all the work on a MB with an ASM, have the ASM complete the blue card and then approach tthe SM for his signature on the blue card.

 

T/F: The MB counselor cannot accept any activities performed or attended before the actual date the blue card was signed by the SM.

 

T/F: If a requirement that has already been signed off in a scout's book it can be erased should he fails to redemonstrate that skill, or adequately recite from memory a list such as rules for safe hiking, to a registered adult at a meeting or campout.

 

T/F: A scount cannot earn a merit badge unless every single scout in the troop is offered the same badge during the same timeframe.

 

 

T/F: Activities which are done outside of a troop or patrol sponsored event can never count towards a merit badge.

 

(This message has been edited by knot head)

[Bob White]

Dan from a logical point of view your post is most illogical.

Since anything you see or hear requires each of us to interpret in order to comprehend it, by your definition...nothing can be right since everything is interpreted.

 

The BSA resources on the topics I used are not unclear in any way. They say specificially what the correct answer is. If you try hard enough you might find a way to twist it, but if you just read what they say and accept them fro what they tell then they are incredibly simple to understand. You just want them to be tougher so you look for hidden meanings, or because others misinterpret them and you don't want to "rock the boat" you capitulate to their terms rather than stand up for the truth of the matter.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori]

I don't mean to be quarrelsome, but not all Bob's answers were his interpretation of the rules. Most are non-disputable but there are some he posted that are his interpretation of the rules. It would have been helpful to cite the manual & page for each answer along with the actual answer.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Twocubdad]

I suppose we are now quibbling about quibbling?

 

My quibble on the responsible party for summer camp merit badges is based on the Advancement Committee Guidelines, page 34, "Advancement in Summer Camp," second paragraph, which reads. "The procedures for advancement in summer camp are established by the council advancement committee in cooperation with the committee responsible for summer camp, the camp director and the program director." I suppose we could continue to quibble about the meaning of "responsible for" and "in cooperation with" if we choose to so quibble.

 

My quibble regarding a scout signing his own handbook is based on same book, page 24, "Four Steps of Advancement", step two being "The Boy Scout is tested. A Scout may be tested on rank requirements by his patrol leader, Scoutmaster, assistant Scoutmaster, a troop committee member or a member of the troop." Additional quibbles may be based upon the notion that the Scout himself is "a member of the troop" but I would further quibble that is a rather convoluted use of the Queen's English. If that were the intent, would't they have added "or the Scout himself."?

 

You can quibble with the application of the above, however it is unequibblical (if that's not a word, it should be) that the above is right out of the book.

 

Quibble on!

[dan]

Bob(Spock)White

 

First one you interpreted incorrectly

Can a youth identify himself as a Boy Scout when seeking donations for an Eagle Project?

 

He could say I am looking for donations for my Eagle Project. Which identified him as an BSA member and did not use a trade marked BSA term.

 

 

 

 

[Bob White]

learn long and prosper

 

No he cannot. The BSA prohibits the use of the names or images of the BSA when seeking donations ofr other organizations unless it is a BSA sponsored approved activity. The candidtae does the project as a representative of the benefitting organizaation not as a BSA member.

 

The Advancement committee guide on page 5 under the heading Responsibilities of the Council Advancement Committee includes the following in its listing..."Determine procedures for Summer Camp advancement."

 

on page 7 under Advancement in Summer Camp says "Make sure the program at the summer camps encompasses Cub Scout, Boy Scout, and Venturing procedures for advancement. The procedures should be established, in writing, by the council advancement committee in cooperation with the camp director or program director prior to the beginning of camp.

 

The BSA clearly makes the advancement committee responsible.

 

[dan]

BUT

Eagle Project is not a trade marked name by the BSA! Is it?

 

You are reading to much into the rules.

 

So YES he can.

 

 

[Horizon]

Thanks for the thread - I scored in the 70s (did not know the references for Eagle, and mentally put in the caveat about knots in required merit badges).

 

I would second the request for an "urban myths of the BSA" list that could be kept here. This could be a great list to distribute at Troop meetings to help show people that they need training.

 

Myths:

Time to earn a MB is limited to 2 years

Concurrent earning of T-2-3

Patrol camping requires 2 deep leadership

Tour permits are needed for every outing

 

etc.

 

[Bob White]

This has nothing to do with the use of a trademark. The Scout would be leveraging on the name and reputation of the BSA in order to obtain donations for another organization and that action is prohibited. Why would you put so much effort into finding a loophole when none is needed. The candidate can simply represent himself for what he is, a volunteer for a project to benefit (place the benfitting organization's name here). Better yet Get an operating budget from the benefitting organization. The purpose of the project is to demonstrate leadership not demonstrate ability to beg for donations!

 

This is not a scouting activity, it is not sponsored by scouting, there is no reason to use any reference to the BSA or its programs in order to seek donations for another organization.

 

Why is it so hard to just follow the rules? We are Scouts for pete's sake, we are supposed to the ones who are trustworthy and obedient. Why do we have some leaders who are always looking for ways around the rules? It's embarassing.

 

 

[FireKat]

Ok - here is a question. A boy finishes his eagle project on his birthday. Is this allowed? Would you sign his application?

[CalicoPenn]

Quibble On!

 

I have some of my own:

 

"Can a youth identify himself as a Boy Scout when seeking donations for an Eagle Project?" Eagle Scout candidates are not subject to the rules listed in the unit fundraising application, which seems to be where you are getting your answer from. They are subject to the rules listed in the Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Handbook. The ONLY germane limitation in fundraising is "Donors to projects must be made aware of what entity is benefiting from the project, and that it clearly is not the Boy Scouts of America." (The other fundraising limitations are that the project may not be a fundraiser, and any funds raised that are not used to purchase materials for the project must be returned to the donors). The project handbook does not, anywhere, say an Eagle Scout candidate cannot identify himself as a Boy Scout, or as working on his Eagle Scout service project, when soliciting donations for his Eagle Project. In fact, it would be near impossible for a Scout not to be identified as a Boy Scout when soliciting donations for an Eagle service project. It says that it must be made clear that he is not soliciting donations to the BSA. So, per Boy Scouts of America literature, the answer is Yes.

 

How many elective merit badges must a scout complete to earn the Star Rank? The proper answer should be Two, and it all comes down to interpretation of the word Elective. When earning merit badges for Star rank, four of the merit badges must be Eagle required badges. The other two badges, by virtue of not being required to be of any particular kind of merit badge, are elective badges at the time of earning them. He is required to earn 4 Eagle required badges and 2 elective badges (even though he may elect to earn two more Eagle required badges as his elective badges). Further, the list of Eagle Scout required merit badges is not absolute. There are two instances of choices within the required badges: Emergency Preparedness or Lifesaving; and Swimming or Hiking or Cycling. There is nothing in the rules that says a Scout can't earn all of these badges, but he can only use one of each category as a required badge - the rest become elective badges (even though they are "required" and have the silver border). Eagle Scout is not a "graduation" - it is another step in the process. Each rank, though building towards the next, are also stopping points along the way, and should be considered as separate achievements. A baffler of a question would be "Can a Scout use Emergency Preparedness AND Lifesaving as two of his four Eagle required merit badges for Star rank?" (my answer would be no - as soon as one is earned, the other takes the "rank" of elective badge - your thoughts?)

 

Since I'm not sure which answers I got "wrong", a couple possibilities might be who is responsible for advancement training and summer camp merit badges. I said the District Advancement Committee Chair, and committee, and the Council Advancement Committee Chair, and committee - through the Council Camping Chair and Committee (who is responsible for the Camp and Program Directors at camp). The Chairs of the committees have ultimate responsibility because they are the Chairs - so I stand by those answers.

 

I'd like to see the list of knots (for both ranks) to see your interpretation of knots for each.

 

How about a full listing of the answers you were looking for?

[dan]

Bob White

Why can you not see that you are so wrong on this one?

I cannot believe the BSA is going to tell a scout that he cannot tell anyone he is a scout and is working on his Eagle.

If the BSA does not want there name used with an Eagle Project they need to remove it as part as the Eagle requirement. The fundraising can be part of the Eagle Project.

 

Now

For the next one.

 

True of false...A unit may set an attendance or participation measurement to determine if a scout is "active" in the unit?

 

Yes they may, many units do and the BSA does not tell them to stop it, do they?

A CO can say if you do not attend at least 75 percent of the actives you will be removed from the unit.

 

And they are not breaking you perceived rules.

 

Why can you not see these rules are not black and white, something I wish they where.