Scoutmaster Conferences

[gcnphkr]

I'm looking over the advancement report and I have about 20 scouts needing scoutmaster conferences (not counting two Eagle SMCs I need to do by the 28th). The problem is the way our troop does SMC. Keep in mind I've tried to change this, but they've been doing this for years and are not willing to change. Somewhere in troop history it was decided that the SM would only do the Eagle conference, other conferences are done by ASMs (And ASMs cannot do two conferences with the same scout). They also make the SMC a big production. Despite my continued objections, they retest the scouts. They call it a review to help remind them of what they learned, but it's a retest. One poor Tenderfoot recently spent 1.5 hours on his 2C SMC.

This is the process that the scouts have to go through:

 

Talk to the SMC coordinator and be assigned an ASM

Call (not speak to at a meeting) the ASM and make an appointment

In full uniform, go to the ASM's house for the conference (and bring rope, sticks to lash, compass, etc)

Spend an hour or two being retested

Get back with the ASM at the next meeting to go back over the things that you missed

Have the ASM sign of on your conference

I've not made any inroads on getting this changed. Maybe with some of the newer ASMs who have only known me. But the old guard, including the COR, CC, and veteran ASMs want it to stay the same. They say that the scouts just were not retaining things when they did not do it this way.

But it is such a big production that some of the scouts take months to get it done. I had one scout take over a year on his Tenderfoot. Finally, at a troop meeting, I introduced him to an ASM and had them do the conference during the meeting.

I know we need to change this, but I just don't know how. I'm about ready to do what I did with that one scout with all of them. There are generally 8-10 ASM at a meeting, that would at least take care of the T-2 conferences.

[OldGreyEagle]

Jet, what is your Role in the troop?

[FScouter]

A couple of random comments:

 

The mission of Scouting is not to learn and retain rank requirement skills.

 

If Scouts can't remember what they learned, the program obviously has no need for the boys to use those skills. Fix the program.

 

The Scoutmaster has been derelict in his duties if he does not personally do every Scoutmaster conference for every boy. Delegate other stuff, but not one of the primary Scoutmaster functions.

 

There is a good SM Conference training on the national web site.

 

If you're the Scoutmaster, insist on functioning as such.

[Bob White]

"Keep in mind I've tried to change this, but they've been doing this for years and are not willing to change."

 

Definition of "unit tradition": Doing things wrong for so long that people think it's right.

 

Managing the advancement program is your responsibility as Scoutmaster jet526 and not the ASM's, CC's or CR's.

 

You need to do what you know is right for the scouts and the program.

[Stosh]

Gee, I guess I've been doing it wrong for all these years. I was an ASM for many years and NEVER did a SMC.... but now that I'm SM I do them ALL. Some of them take a few minutes, some take a few more minutes than a few. None over 15-20 minutes. I guess I have to add a few hoops, hurdles, and obstacles for my boys to suffer through so everyone can know how difficult it can be for boys to work with the adults.

 

The only "exception" to the rules I adhere to is: if there is a boy who doesn't feel comfortable with one-on-one with the SM on his first couple of SMC's then his PL is invited to sit in on the process for emotional support.

 

Stosh

 

Stosh

[gcnphkr]

OGE: I've been the Scoutmaster for 18 months now. It wasn't until last summer at PTC that I realized there was a problem and I've been trying to correct it ever since. But the veterans don't see it as an issue. They look at our Eagle rate and ask why should we mess with what is working.

 

FScouter: Well thanks, that was helpful. Good to know that I'm derelict because I didn't personally conduct all 64 conferences in the last year. I'll certainly make a point to handle the 80-100 that should occur this next year. Considering that the Committee will insist that I continue to do them the same way, at least having them at my house, that's only a couple of extra hours a week. I'm sure my daughter won't mind. Are you suggesting that I should tell the COR, CC and the Committee that it is my way or the highway? Will a new scoutmaster that agrees with the status quo improve things for the troop or help the scouts?

[Bob White]

Jet

 

There seems to be a bigger problem at hand then who does your Scoutmaster conferences. It seems the unit you serve measures its program effectiveness by its ability to crank out Eagle Scouts.

 

That is an even bigger problem. I guess you need to decide what you want your legacy to be. Are you to be just another in a long line of scoutmasters in that unit who does what his assistants tell him to do, or would you like to provide a scouting program instead of an advancement factory. Your choice. And if the CO does not want an actual Scouting program then why would you want to be the Scoutmaster there?

 

On average a scout advances about one rank every year. How many scouts do you have currently registered in the troop?

[gcnphkr]

Managing the advancement program is your responsibility as Scoutmaster jet526 and not the ASM's, CC's or CR's.

You need to do what you know is right for the scouts and the program.

Knowing where I need to be and knowing how to get there are different things. That is my problem. Other than to keep preaching and slowly implementing not not sure what else I can do.

[Bob White]

I would suggest having a serious heart to heart with the committee chair and let him or her know that the goal of scouting is not to crank out eagle scouts or herd scouts through the ranks. If that is not what you want to do then just do not do it.

 

If they want you to be Scoutmaster, and all you want is to follow the scouting program then they should respect you and the program enough to let you do it or I would seek a better troop.

 

 

[Horizon]

Here is how we do it (Troop of ~40 boys).

 

Once the boys has recorded / gained the necessary sign-offs in his book, he sees his Patrol Leader (or another senior Scout if his PL is unavailable). The PL initials the Scout Spirit to indicate that the boy is ready for advancement. I have discussed this before on this board, and do everything I can to ensure that this is not Adding To The Requirements. I ask for this in an attempt to help the boys see their youth leaders as their partners for Advancement, and to get the youth leaders to take ownership. I have even done a Minute on the subject of "How many Scout Handbooks have your initials in them?"

 

The boy sends an email directly to me (or uses a form on our website which auto-generates the email) to request a SMC. We then do the SMC ASAP. I do them at Troop Meetings during the skills portion (1st choice), on Campouts (2nd choice), or during the week at my home. If I am completely swamped with SMCs, I might ask one of my ASMs to run an advancement SMC for Tenderfoot and 2nd Class. I only do that in situations where my availability is becoming a barrier to advancement.

 

"Re-testing"

Our troop was strong in the "re-testing" model when I became SM. I told them that SMCs and BORs had a reputation as the equivalent of a Captain's Mast in the Navy (which I have had the unfortunate experience of being on the receiving end). They told me that they had done that because many boys were coming up for advancement without actually knowing their skills (a lot a quickie sign-offs apparently). I told them that I would fix the training, and in return they needed to change the BORs to be in compliance with Scouting.

 

I sometimes ask a boy to teach me to tie a knot, and will work with him during the SMC until he can teach it to me. One of my patrol leaders sends his members to me with a "knot stick" - the stick has all of the knots for that particular rank tied to it. The stick was done by the Scout under the guidance of the PL, and I know that I do not need to worry about the Scout's skills. I talk to them about all achievements (What did you cook for the meal? What was your favorite activity from the list? How would you know if I was having a heart attack? Did we follow the safe swimming rules at the lake?). However, anything they are unsure of I then teach them during the SMC.

 

You are doing the right thing in running the SMCs, but you might hit a buzzsaw at the BOR level. I started by requesting a meeting of the Advancement Committee so that I could talk to them about how we work together. Before the meeting I sent everyone the online materials regarding Advancement from the main website (I got the link from Bob White). That helped set the stage for our conversation, since I turned everything back to the Scouting materials when a question came up ("Lets see what the BSA says before we discuss this.")

[Eagledad]

OK, here is one way I would consider approaching your problem. Find all the documentation in the BSA Handbooks that refers to how the BSA recommends the SM and troop should perform in this situation. Then, as the SM, call an adult meeting and teach everyone how the BSA suggest the SM perform in this area of the program by reading out of the SM Handbook and whatever else you need to reference . Once youve finished reading the text, explain to the group your concerns and the problems you have seen. At that point, tell everyone that the troop adults as a whole will go through SM Specific training on a date you just set with the District. And then after the training, you will hold another meeting to discuss how the troop should perform SM Conferences. I would invite the Unit Commissioner, the District Commissioner, the District Training Chairman and the District Executive so that you have some weight behind you. They are trained to stay quiet in these things, but its hard for folks to turn you down when they are there. I wouldnt allow a discussion on the subject; instead explain that if the troop is going to be so diverse from the BSA program, then they can at least go through this training together. Once they get trained, then they can express their view on the subject. Program Quality is number one with you and you feel training as a group is important. Have a training date ready with the District Training Chairman so that you are basically announcing the date and anyone who wants to have input on the subject needs to go through this training.

 

This is going to take some courage on your part, but as BW said, you have a much bigger problem and you need to find a wedge to get your SM authority started into the long standing traditions of you troop.

 

At 18 months, you have enough time to express concern. Dont give the group options, announce to all the adults in the troop that you are going to have a SM meeting for all the adults. And start a tradition of these meeting twice a year.

 

Hope that helps. I know this is frustrating. You are in a tough position and its going to require to pull from parts of you that you did know you had.

 

Oh, and remind them that you love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

 

[OldGreyEagle]

I am sorta surprised here, in the Advancement Committee Guide Policies and Procedures book, #33088, the following describes the Scoutmaster Conference

 

 

One of the most enjoyable experiences of being a Scoutmaster is the opportunity for a Scout and his leader to sit down and visit together.

 

In large troops, Scoutmasters occasionally assign this responsibility to assistant Scoutmasters or members of the troop committee; but this is unfortunate, because most Scoutmasters feel that this is truly the opportunity to get to know the Scout and help him chart his course in life.

 

A good conference should be unhurried. It helps the Scout evaluate his accomplishments and to set new goals with his Scoutmaster. This can be accomplished at a troop meeting, camping trip, or in the Scout's home.

 

Goal setting by the Scout makes it possible for the Scoutmaster to help the Scout with his weaknesses and encourage him to use his strengths.

 

The Scout (joining) conference is probably one of the most important associations a Scout will have in his Scouting career. It is at this conference that the Scoutmaster illustrates to him the adult-youth relationship that is unique to Scouting.

 

All through the ranks, it is rewarding for the Scoutmaster to observe the Scout grow in responsibility and maturity. It is through this association and example that a young man grows and matures, and the Scoutmaster conference accomplishes that aim. (See Scoutmaster Handbook, chapter 10.)

 

 

There is no retesting, there is no talk about what did you cook when and how would you treat a comminuted fracture of the femur.

 

Jet, I understand about changing the status quo and how entrenched ideas and traditions can be. Are there any leaders who share your thoughts? Anyone who can help you in the change process? Your Unit Commissioner? ANother Scoutmaster that is respected?

[gcnphkr]

It seems the unit you serve measures its program effectiveness by its ability to crank out Eagle Scouts.

We certainly do that.

On average a scout advances about one rank every year. How many scouts do you have currently registered in the troop?

We have 60 at the moment. We had a couple of bad recruiting years a few years back, but we generally get about 15 new scouts each year. With some changes we made this year most will make 1st Class in the first year so that is 60 there. One rank a year after that makes another 30. Throw in Palm conferences and it is another 10.

And if the CO does not want an actual Scouting program then why would you want to be the Scoutmaster there?

It's a paper CO, and I just don't think the adults know any better. I think another year and most of the "this is the way we do things" committee members and ASMs will be gone (Their son's will be gone and I don't expect them to stick around). I'm slowly bringing the CORs around, we have two--it's complicated. Maybe it won't take a year. OTOH, I just did a SMC with an Eagle candidate and the CC wouldn't sign off on the application until he added more pictures to the project (okay, it was a bit weak with only 3 pictures).

[gcnphkr]

OGE--I love doing SMCs. In June we had a week long trail to First Class camp. Towards the end of the week we had some scouts who were ready for their Tenderfoot (and some 2nd Class would had been in the troop for a year or two) conferences. It was a blast. If I can make it so that I can do them at meetings and camp out I'll do it in a heart beat. I've even considered just having them with scouts and then asking them to hand me their Handbook and signing them off and tell them to go down the hall for their BOR (The Committee would have a conniption).

Are there any leaders who share your thoughts? Anyone who can help you in the change process? Your Unit Commissioner? ANother Scoutmaster that is respected?

Not the UC. Don't even know who he is. Met one a couple of years ago and never heard from him again. Possibly three scoutmaster's ago. I've not talked with him about the issues, but he would certainly be listened to. The younger ASM/committee members share my thoughts...mostly because they've been to training. To some extent there is a "you have to prove yourself" attitude with the other adults that is not there with the younger ones.

[CNYScouter]

I like Eagledads idea to call an adult meeting and teach everyone how the BSA suggests the SM holds a Scoutmaster Conference.

 

After being involved with a unit like this, it is very likely a chance that you will get resistance to training and trying to get them all to take 8 hours of training nearly impossible.

 

You may want to consider having your UC or one of your district trainers come in and do the Supplemental Training Module Scoutmaster Conference Training

 

This module will teach Scoutmasters, assistant Scoutmasters, and other troop leaders about the purposes of the Scoutmaster's conference and will offer suggestions for questions that could be asked at these conferences.

 

The time required to do this is only 1 hour which you may find it easier to schedule and more people willing to attend.

 

Supplemental Training Modules are found at:

http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/TrainingModules.aspx

 

I do applaud you for trying to move your unit towards using the BSA guidelines.

(This message has been edited by CNYScouter)