Reason for scoutmaster not to sign a bluecard to begin..

[Northbell]

We follow the guidelines that requires a scout to have the Scoutmaster sign his merit badge blue card when starting a badge. Is it ever reasonable for the scoutmaster to tell a scout (first class and above) that he can't begin yet (for a number of reasons like wait till camp, wait till we work on it as a troop)? What is the purpose for this step in the merit badge process?

[Gunny2862]

Hi Northbell,

Welcome to the forums.

 

The purpose of it has never been explicitly explained to me but, my understanding is that if there are prerequisites to a certain Merit badge, that the Scoutmaster is certifying to the MB counselor that those prerequisites have been met.

 

My question about this would be IF that is the case then why isn't the advancement chair the one who does this signature?

 

For me, I wouldn't stop a Scout who wanted to work on something individually rather than "wait for camp" or the Troop to do it "as a class". I would think it was unreasonable to quell his initiative in wanting to do it on his own. We should be facilitators not gatekeepers.

 

If the Scout hasn't met the prerequisites then I think it's entirely reasonable not to sign it.

[John-in-KC]

Welcome to the Forums.

 

The first reason you sign the card is the SM should be the assigner of Counselors. Adult Association is one of the Methods reinforced in the Merit Badge program. Your working acquaintance with folks in your District is vital; it helps you match the right Counselor to a Scout.

 

A second reason you sign the card is so you can keep tabs on a Scout. If Billy is asking "Mr Jackson, may I...?" but you don't see any cards returning, there's an opportunity for a Scoutmaster Conference on "sticking with things to completion."

 

A third reason is to make sure your youth are Scouting safely. We want to avoid 1 on 1 contact (YP training), so we encourage Scouts to come to Counselors as buddies. Part of your signature is making sure you're providing a safe environment for your charges:

http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges.aspx

 

While camp may be a convenient place to work on an MB, you should never (imo) stifle a Scout who wants to work on a subject in-town. Part of his growth comes from experiencing difficulties; if he chose to do Nature in town when it really could have better resources to hand at Scout Camp, well, there's another lightbulb moment awaiting a SM conference

 

Please, never hold a youth because the Troop is going to do a MB! That's a key symptom of a Merit Badge Mill. Allow the young man the freedom to explore on his own terms. We guide them so much in school, think about the joy of discovery on its own terms.

 

These are my thoughts on this...

[Bob White]

To answer your question Northbell, the purpose of the Scoutmaster signing the card prior to the scout contacting the merit badge counselor is two fold.

 

One reason is that it is the Scoutmaster's responsibility to see that the scout has the cotact information for a registered and approved counselor, has met any prerequirements as stated in the BSA merit badge requirememnts, and understands the need to have a buddy along at all times when meeting with the counselor.

 

 

The second reason is so that the Scoutmaster knows what the scout is working on and can talk with him about his interests, his goals , and to offer coaching and mentoring to help the scout set goals to complete the badge.

 

 

Now if you do not mind I have a question for you. In your post you mention merit badge work for First Class Scouts and above. Why are you excluding boys who are below the First Class Rank from merit badge opportunities???

[Gunny2862]

Thanks John and BW,

While I've been checking counselors and prereqs and reiterating the buddy rule I never knew they were all a part of that signature.

Also the starting and not finishing bit, too, good to remember.

Thanks.

[Northbell]

Thanks for the great feedback. I am not the Scoutmaster but have observed boys being denied a blue card for various reasons. We have worked on badges, such as cooking, as a troop and not given scouts their partially done bluecard. In this situation, is it still the scouts responsibility to ask for one and if they don't, don't fill one out?

Our scoutmaster encourages new scouts to work on Trail to First Class and will tell the scout that they can't work at camp on a badge because Trail to first class is an all day activity.

The scouts end up coming back 6 months later remembering they started the badge but no proof. I guess this is a lesson learned but its frustrating when its over and over again.

Is this a SM control issue or a lesson for the scout to not leave the meeting without the card.

 

[Bob White]

It is a Scoutmaster control issue in that the Scoutmaster is SUPPOSED to know and follow the Scouting program and your Scoutmaster ISN'T.

 

Any registered Scout can work on merit badge. And the Counselor is responsible for giving the scout accurate reports for the scouts recoprds.

 

Your troop leaders need training or at the very least attitude adjustments.

[Gunny2862]

We had a youth sign up, attain his Scout status all with in ten days prior to departure from camp. We worked Tenderfoot advancement with him at camp and he took three MB classes, he finished one and has two partials +/- 70% complete.

He also had a great time doing all the "other" camp stuff.

I can't see why someone would make a Scout who wanted to work on badges wait. They should be doing some T-2-1 advancement but if they are doing badges too then that's great, not a problem.

 

Once the card has it's initial signature I don't expect to see it again(as SM) until the counselor has signed off on it being complete. I know he's working on it or started it but unless it takes longer than usual I'm usually not asking them about it and I certainly never hold their cards for them.

 

And if you are doing classes as a Troop for the MB then why hasn't the Blue Card been started by the Scout, signed by the SM, kept by the boy and had the requirements that were met during that session signed off by the Counselor and then returned to the Scout until the next session?

 

I may be wrong and am open to correction but I think that is how it's supposed to work.

[eisely]

There appear to be a variety of reasons for the SM signature requirement, and I do not disagree with anything that anybody has said. Certainly BW is correct in pointing out that the SM in question is not adhering to the program. I can certainly see the wisdom in trying to channel a boy's efforts to completing first class, but there is no authority or good reason to attempt to hold a boy back if he wants to charge ahead on a MB. One may also encounter situations where a rare oppotunity to work on a particular badge comes up. Excluding scouts who are not yet first class from such opportunities seems arbitrary and unfair.

 

In addition to monitoring YP compliance, the SM signature requirement also affords another opportunity for better "internal controls" within the troop on advancement generally. If the SM is keeping a good side record of who is working on what badge, this makes it easier to resolve claims about subsequent MB completion when the SM did not even know that a particular scout was working on a particular MB.

[Knot Head]

Good thread with good info. Thanks to all.

[scoutldr]

I had a parent come to me last year and say " is going to spend the summer with his grandpa, who is a 'Commissioner'. Is it OK if they work on scout stuff?" I said OK to the rank requirements (which I would have verified), but had to remind them that Grandpa had to be a registered MBC in order to sign off merit badges. Never heard any more about it...

 

Another reason is to ensure that the scout is working on an "age appropriate" MB (case by case basis), to avoid disappointment. Some 11 year olds may be able to handle a shotgun...most are not.

 

At our camp, the "Finish First" program is a half day. The other half day we encourage merit badges suitable for first year scouts, such as swimming and basketry. But if a scout wants to do Nuclear Science, we let him.

[gcnphkr]

My problem has been just the opposite. I've only been a scoutmaster for 18 months. I still get scouts coming to me to sign a card after they have finished the merit badge. I've spoken to various MB counselors about not starting without it, but so far with mixed results. There is a part of me that wants to tell the scout, "I'm sorry, you needed this signature before you started. You will have to do it over again." But then why punish the boy for the failings of the adults.

 

I do encourage the scouts to finish their T-2-1 first aid requirements before they do the First Aid MB. I know many allow the MB to cover those, but I think it is better if they have been through them before. But, even then I would sign the card if they insisted. There are a few others that might fall into the same category, Lifesaving without Swimming. Emergency Preparedness without First Aid (First Aid is a requirement for the completion of EP, not for starting).

[John-in-KC]

jet526,

 

You're the program officer of your unit, you can make decisions about who your youth will see.

 

If the Counselors are out-of-troop, you as SM can inform them that they are no longer to counsel youth from your Troop. At the same time, call your District Advancement Chair. Make sure he knows there are Counselors operating "out of school."

 

OTOH, if they're in-house, have a visit with your CC and COR. Keep them in the loop with a friendly cup of coffee. Then, call your District Advancement Chair and have the needed in-house Counselors who "don't get it" removed from the roster. When they agree to follow procedures, you can ask they they re-train and re-qualify to the District List!

 

 

[Twocubdad]

It is my job to counsel the Scout as to what he should be working on and the signature gives me that opportunity. If a new Scout comes to me wanting to work on Personal Management, I'm going to redirect him. How about Pets? Have you ever done any leather working or wood carving before?

 

I know some troops that have rigid rules and age requirements for certain merit badges and even ranks. That's wrong. But I will agree that some MBs are better suited for older Scouts. An 11-year-old isn't going to get much out of Personal Management if his budget consists of a $2 allowance which all goes into savings.

 

We also have mutiple counselors for various badges. I know who runs a good program and who would sign the surrender papers, if they were put in front of them.

 

It's my job to advise the boy as to their best course. The signature gives me a control point from which to do that.

[Northbell]

All good reasons.

 

Since an assistant SM can also sign blue cards, is it possible that in a boy led troop, which ours strives to be, the SPL can also do this job?