Eagle service project outside sphere?

[evmori]

Looks like we are going to have to agree to disagree! Some say it is outside the sphere of Scouting. Some don't! Oh well! Another multi-page thread that ended up in the same place it started!

 

Now, who wants pie?

[OldGreyEagle]

See now, this is something again I have to comment on as a moderator and its for my own education. Beveah a few posts back comments that he can't beleive this thread is still going on, now, I can either take as a outright comment, that he can't beleive that forum members still want to make comments on this issue or I could take it as a subtle implication that the topic should be closed as there is nothing else to talk about. Well, since we all want to be be sure that everyone gets to say everything they want for as long as they want whenever possible, I am sure Beveah was just expressing suprise at the "legs" this topic still has. And besides, I am sure Beveah would never want to shut down any discussion unless it was illegal, fattening or immoral.

 

Then Ed makes a claim that the only denouement possible is that we agree to disagree, but is that not always a possibility in any disagreement? Should it have to be announced? Is it better announced by a forum member rather than a Moderator? If I had posted, well this thread has lost its steam either just after Beavah's comment or in this position, agreeing with ED, and closed the thread, who would complain that the Moderators are controlling thought again?

 

And Ed, Beveah, I am not picking on you guys, you just happen to be the authors of the posts when this thought hit me, it could have been anyone. I take it serving pie means the person thinks the topic is done, any any other posts serves only sadistic equinenecrophiliacs, but indeed who gets to make that call?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[acco40]

equinenecrophiliacs - please elaborate. Horse's patoots that complain alot?

[OldGreyEagle]

sadistic equinenecrophiliacs

 

thats the medical term for people who love beating a dead horse

[FScouter]

Comments along the lines of "dead horse", "I can't believe it", the trite "agree to disagree" (whatever that means), and pie all strike me as put-downs to the person that commented just prior. Its pompous and arrogant to suggest that discussion should be stopped simply because one has lost interest.

 

Who gets to make the call as to when discussion is finished? Every individual can end his own participation whenever he likes. If someone is interjecting useless gibberish into a discussion, that can easily be interpreted as a tactic to squelch the ideas of another person and derail the train of thought. In such a case I think its the responsibility of every other participant to ask that person to knock it off.

 

This should not be confused with a moderator locking a topic after much back and forth bickering between 2 or 3 individuals, which is a completely separate issue. That is an example of the forum membership failing to moderate itself, necessitating a moderator to step in.

[evmori]

Comments along the lines of "dead horse", "I can't believe it", the trite "agree to disagree" (whatever that means), and pie all strike me as put-downs to the person that commented just prior. Its pompous and arrogant to suggest that discussion should be stopped simply because one has lost interest.

 

Agree to disagree means we are not going to come to a consensus and we should just realize that.

 

None of those are put-downs. None is pompous or arrogant and to think so is, well, pompous & arrogant.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Update

 

I had the opportunity last week to directly talk with members of the BSA National Council's Advancement Committee and the professionals of the BSA National Office's Health and Safety, and Risk Management departments about the term "outside the sphere of scouting", as well as questions regarding whether the Eagle candidate's community service is a scout activity, and whether the uniform can be worn when securing funds or materials for a project.

 

I was correct in the information I have shared on these topics.

 

Outside the sphere of scouting means that the activity is not a scouting activity sponsored by any level of the BSA. Nor are the parties involved proteced by BSA accident or libility protection, UNLESS they are there as part of a BSA unit activity, and then only the registered members there are protected. That does not extend to the candidate who is there as a volunteer for the benefiting organization, and would be protected by the benefiting organizations liabilty coverage as would all others at the event.

 

The activity can be used toward the candidates advancement just as his participation in a school activity can be applied toward his advancement without the event being a scouting activity.

 

A scout cannot wear a BSA uniform when seeking donations for another organization, and since the Eagle project must be for an organization outside of scouting the candidate should not use the image or name of scouting when seeking donations.

 

 

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Feedback is a gift:

 

BW, I suggest you re-contact those folks. They need to send out a position paper, in plain and simple English, which explains what they said.

 

The position paper needs to push down to every Commissioner, Scoutmaster, and District Advancement Chair... nationwide.

 

Gee... sounds like an article for Scouting Magazine, with followup to ACP&P #33088.

[Bob White]

The resources they gave were the same ones I used, the Advancement Committee Policies and Proceudres manual along with the uniform regulations that appear in the Insignia Guide.

 

There is nothing mystical about the Eagle service project. It is no different than any other activity done outside of scouting that can can be applied to a youth's advancement in the BSA.

 

No amount of position papers can make an adult apply reason and logic to a situation when they refuse to accept clear and confirmed evidence.

 

It took only a few minutes for a room of scouters to realize they had a misconception based on habit rather than facts.

 

You have the same opportunity they had.

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori]

And these member whos talked with you, Bob, are who? Names, not titles, please.

 

I agree John, something official in writing would solidify this. Otherwise, it is like hearsay!

 

 

[John-in-KC]

All the more so when the moniker "Bob White" is a WB patrol name and thus a nom de plume.

 

"Thus saith the Lord" only works when reading from Holy Scripture.

[Bob White]

Not sure what your point is John in KC unless of cources "in KC " is your real name.

 

The BSA has already spelled these things out, you just choose to ignore them. As you long as you realize it is a personal choice and unsupported by the resources of the BSA.

 

I also asked about councils extending additional liabilty protection to Eagle Projects. That cannot be done, and if it is has not actual effect. Liability protection only covers registered adult scouters and COs during regular scouting functions. Since A)the project is not a project for scouting but for the benefactor unless the scouter was there as part of a troop or District activity there would be coverage, and B)if the scouter was there as a part of a troop activity he or she would not require an addidional policiy since the BSA policy would already be in effect as a secondary protection AFTER the liability coverage of the benefiting organization was used up.

 

But that is just according to the fellows at the BSA who are in charge of that kind of thing.

[John-in-KC]

I've had PM correspondence with more than one member of this network. They know my real name, and I theirs. OTOH, in our PM correspondence in the past several years, you have never been willing to disclose your name. Further, there are folks, such as Ed, who use their true name here. If you won't consider my request, consider his endorsement instead.

 

Tell you what: Next week I'm at PTC. I'll have a chance to visit with some folks from the Relationships Division at National. I'll ask them to have the advancement folks validate what you said, with names, and get back to me.

[Bob White]

Four of the moderators as well as the site owner know my real name and that seems to be sufficient with them, more importantly using handles, as you yourself do, is not contrary to any rule on this forum. I am not required to use my own name just to suit your curiosity or that of others, nor am I tempted to.

 

Enjoy your vist with the members of the relationship division, I've met the director of the division and he seems to be a fine gentleman, but I hope you realize that they have no relationship to advancement or risk management which are the core of this particular issue.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[FireKat]

I saw this at our scout shop: A large banner the boldly announces that this is an "Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project" with areas to write in the troop number. Eagle logo (BSA copyright) on it.  This is ment to hang in front of the project as it is being worked on to advertize that a boy scout is doing said project.

 Bob, how do you explain this?

It is being sold by the offical scout shops?  Can your expert explain it?