Eagle service project outside sphere?

[Dustoff]

I was recently following another thread (under uniforms) about the wearing of scout uniforms at the eagle Scout Service Project, and that the project is "outside the Sphere of Scouting".

 

While I do find that these are interesting and impressive words, I have failed to find them in either the current eagle scout requirements http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/eagle.aspx

or in the 2008 Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook. http://www.nesa.org/trail/18-927.pdf

 

What I did find was the following:

 

5. While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and give leadership to others in a service project helpful to any religious institution, any school, or your community. (The project should benefit an organization other than Boy Scouting.) The project plan must be approved by the organization benefiting from the effort, your Scoutmaster and troop committee, and the council or district before you start. You must use the Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook, BSA publication No. 18-927, in meeting this requirement.

 

I believe the sentence (The project should benefit an organization other than Boy Scouting.) replaced the "outside the Sphere of Scouting" sometime in the past, but I'm not sure.

 

What I do know is that a uniform looks much better in the newspaper articles and, since a project would not be completed for political, commercial, or monetary gain, what was the point in prohibiting it?

[John-in-KC]

The precise words are:

 

In the ELSP workbook 18-927 (online) or 18-936 (at the Scout Center, in bin items): "Projects involving council property or other BSA activities are not acceptable."

 

In Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures #33088 (2007), page 27: "Service to others is important. Work involving council property or other BSA activities is not acceptable for an Eagle Scout service project. The service project also may not be performed for a business, or be of a commercial nature, or be a fund-raiser."

 

From the National website:

http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/service.aspx

"Eagle Scout leadership service projects involving council property or other BSA activities are not acceptable for an Eagle service project. The service project also may not be performed for a business, be of a commercial nature, or be a fund-raiser."

 

Do these make the matter clear?

[evmori]

You won't find those words, Dustoff. Those were someones interpretation of what John-in-KC posted.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[scottteng]

I recall the thread and the general consensus that was arrived at after much back and forth was that scouts should wear uniforms if and where appropriate. The brainier parts ie. presentations to boards, appearances before govn't agencies and low labor projects call for uniforms. Grunt work in the hot sun ie. digging holes, planting trees, clearing trails call for appropriate clothing here that it likely T-shirt and shorts. An older scouting shirt would be nice.

[Bob White]

Dustoff

 

The references given earlier in this thread are incorrect. The actual reference is in the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures Manual under the heading "Eagle Scout Rank" and says;

"The Eagle Service Project provides the opportunity for the Eagle Scout candidate to demondtrate the leadership skills he has learned in scouting. He does the project outside the sphere of Scouting."

 

It is important to remember that the scout does not do this project as a troop, patrol, district, council or even a BSA national event.

 

It is an INDIVIDUAL leadership activity for the benefit of another organization or the community with the candidate acting as a volunteer for that benefitting group. It is not a scouting activity. Like many other activities in a scout's life it is done outside the sphere of scouting but his involvement is applied toward a BSA advancement requirement.

 

And while a other scouts might help on the project, that does not make the project itself a unit event. In fact the BSA policies specifically say that it cannot be done as part of a unit activity. The project belongs to the benefitting organization not to any level of scouting. It is done outside the sphere of scouting.

 

Many of the elements of scouting do not apply to the project. For instance 2-deep leadership would not apply to the project since no scout units are required to be there and the policies of the BSA only apply to members of the BSA. The same holds true of other BSA policies and BSA benefits. Since the project belongs to the benefactor it would be the benefactors policies and that apply not the BSA's.

 

I hope that explains things better.

BW

[FScouter]

"The references given earlier in this thread are incorrect. "

 

Are you referring to the links to the national website being incorrect?

[scoutingagain]

Thank you for the clarification BW. Very clearly put.

 

In this thread however, no fewer than 5 different references have been provided by at least three different involved and experienced scouters, all relating to this one description of what an Eagle Scout Project is or isn't.

 

Is it any wonder a 15-17 year old youth might get confused about the process.

 

SA

[Bob White]

By the references being incorrect I meant that they do not refer to "Sphere of Scouting" they refer to other aspects of the project.

 

As for being confusing to a 15 or 17 year old, pehaps...but they are not written for the scout. The Advancement policies and procedures are written for the use of the adult leaders to guide and instruct the scout.

 

Where is the difficulty in explaining to the scout that his work as the project leader is done for the benefitting organization and not for the troop or scouting? And that while his work can be applied to the advancement just as other activities he does outside of scouting can be applied to advancement, this is not a project done for or by the BSA and he is there as a volunteer for the beneffitting oprganization.

 

As an example:

Last night I lead an activity for a professional organization for which I am a voluteer leader. I planned and carried out the project by leading others (a committee) who put the event together. I used the leadership skills that I learned through scouting to lead the event. It was not however a scout activity simply because I am a scout leader and I used scout skills.

 

I even had other scout leaders at the event and on the committee simply because we are in the same industry and professional organization.

 

But this leadership activity was outside the sphere of scouting. We did not wear scout uniforms, we did not follow BSA policies, the BSA did not provide insurance protection even though we had scout leaders there, even though I was the leader of the event and even though I used scout skills to lead it.

 

It was for a different organization.

 

It was outside the sphere of scouting.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Gunny2862]

I may be a little slow but don't all of the references given so far support the same conclusions.

 

That an appropriate uniform for the activity being performed should be worn.

That the BSA should not materially benefit from the project.

That an agency or person/s outside of the BSA should be the recipient of the benefit of the project.

That while Scouts may assist as labor, the project cannot be a Unit activity.

 

Like I said, I may be a little slow, but I fail to see the problem for a 17 year old looking at this.

[Bob White]

Gunny

While all of your statements are true none apply to the project being outside the sphere of scouting. There are numerous other statements you could make about Eagle advancement which while true could also be unrealted to what the BSA means by "outside the sphere of Scouting".

 

Please read my example in my previous post. What I did was no different than the candidates role in an service project, but since it was outside the sphere of scouting it was not an appropriate activity for me to be in uniform.

 

Nobody said a 17 year old should not be able to read this. What I posted was the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual is not written to guide youth it is written for adult leaders.

 

Please do not read more into that than exists.

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Gunny2862]

BW, My reply was more for SA's post than for yours. I had started writing and was interrupted - I hadn't seen yours yet.

I fully agree that nothing you were doing in your work example was related to Scouting - even though you are a Scouter and were utilizing some Scouting taught skills.

 

However I DO think that the last three of the statements of mine that you are referring to DO directly relate to it being outside of the sphere of Scouting.

"That the BSA should not materially benefit from the project.

That an agency or person/s outside of the BSA should be the recipient of the benefit of the project.

That while Scouts may assist as labor, the project cannot be a Unit activity."

 

I didn't think I WAS reading anything into it. If so, would you kindly point out what you thought I was reading into it?

 

Also, do you think ,given that it is outside of the sphere of Scouting, that a Uniform on the Eagle candidate is inappropriate for his meetings with any community leaders or the projects principal recipient? Probably dealt with in another thread but just interested.

Thanks BobWhite!

[RememberSchiff]

Some differences

1. I presume Bob did not have to identify himself as a Scouter before considering that activity as an Eagle candidate would.

2. His appearance was not to fulfill a Scout rank requirement.

3. His appearance did not require that he previously meet with Scoutmaster with a written plan which was then reviewed and approved by Scoutmaster.

4. Same as 2 but reviewed and approved by Troop Committee

5. Same as 3 but reviewed and approved by District Eagle Board.

 

While there are stated places and activities that wearing a scout uniform is inappropriate, an Eagle Scout service project is not one of them. While not prohibited nor required, wearing the scout uniform during the Eagle Scout project helps the scout and program.

(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

[Bob White]

Schiff,

Certainly you must realize that the candidate can do the project without the approval of the scoutmaster, troop committee, or district. If the candidate is doing a project for another organization no one in the BSA can tell him he cannot do it. All the BSA can tell him is whether or not he can apply it toward his rank advancement.

 

Their approval is not for the project itself but for being able to apply the work toward the BSA advancement. The Scoutmasters approval does not make this a troop activity. The District advancement committees approval doe not make it a BSA activity. The fact that he is a scout does not make it a BSA.

 

The Project belongs to the benefitting organization, It is led by a youth volunteer who happens to be a Boy Scout and is applying the experience toward his rank advancement.

 

When a scout participates in a team sport for a BSA merit badge his participation must be approved by a merit badge counselor in order to apply for the advancement...however that does not make his game a scouting activity, nor does it make it appropriate for him to wear a scout uniform while playing. He is not playing as a scout. He is playing as a member of the team and applying his participation to his Scouting advancement.

 

It is an activity outside the sphere of scouting JUST LIKE an Eagle Candidates Service Project.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori]

Didn't we just have a lengthy discussion about this & ended up agreeing to disagree?

[scoutmomma]

Certainly you must realize that the candidate can do the project without the approval of the scoutmaster, troop committee, or district. If the candidate is doing a project for another organization no one in the BSA can tell him he cannot do it. All the BSA can tell him is whether or not he can apply it toward his rank advancement.

 

OK, now this confuses me -- how can an Eagle candidate do an Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project without the approval of the troop committee or the district? I have here in front of me page 11 of the 16-page Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook that has at the bottom "Approval Signatures for Project Plan," which include "Unit committee member" and "Council or district advancement committee member," along with the admonishment that "You may proceed with your leadership service project only when you have...Obtained approval from the appropriate persons" I must be missing something...?