Can by laws of a troop be different than boyscout "rules".

[Michdlew5]

Our troop has a rule that a parent cannot be his sons merit badge counselor unless he also counselors another boy at the same time. This was written into our bylaws two years ago because a leader (who is no longer there) was signing off his sons eagle required badges. The troop committee felt this would hurt the other boys because the counselor may no longer be interested in sharing his skill with the troop (coming into a meeting and give presentation, providing hands ons experience).

 

A parent cannot sign their son's blue card if the boy is the only ones completing the badge at that time. While there are other scouts that may want to work on the badge, if it is family outing or spur of the moment thing, it is not always possible to invite the troop. So, my question is - Can a troop but a law into the bylaws that contradicts the boyscouts rule?

[evmori]

Short answer - no.

 

 

Long answer - nope.

[baden]

My answer to your question would be, No, the Troop policy cannot supersede BSA policy. Having said that, the policy of your Troop makes good sense. Unless you are an Atomic Physicist (sp?) counseling the Atomic Energy MB, what unique skills or knowledge do you bring to the party that cannot be found elsewhere in the Troop? This is the general policy of our Troop. Right now we have one of the Dad's counseling the American Business MB for 6 boys including his son. He asked if he could work on this with his son and I said in general we discourage this sort of MB work, but if he were willing to ask if anyone else would like to work on it, I would register him as a MB Counselor. He agreed and it has worked out well. We have had many instances like this in the past. So far a simple explanation of why our Troop likes to do it this way has has been enough to head off any problems.

 

When my son was a Scout, I didn't work with him on any of the Merit Badges that I counsel. As an ASM at the time, I didn't want there to be a perception that I was just passing my son through to ensure his advancement.

[Beavah]

Hi Michdlew5! Welcome to da forums, eh?

 

I think part of the issue might be that yeh don't quite understand how the MB program works in a troop (vs. a cub pack). I reckon none of us would want to see a MB counseled on a family outing as a "spur of the moment thing," eh? Takes away way too much from the experience for the lad.

 

Michdlew, I think yeh need to look at this as an opportunity for your son to meet other adults, to learn from and make connections with other members of the community. To grow up and mature and reach beyond his family, eh? There's nothing that says you can't teach your son things, though. So by all means, teach him how to fly fish on a family outin' and get him "hooked"... then let him go find another enthusiastic adult fisherman to learn more from and earn da badge. Best of both worlds, and it doesn't look to other boys and families like your son is cheatin' or you are playin' favorites. That impression can ruin a lad's Scoutin' experience, and your relationship with other parents in the unit.

 

So there's lots of good reasons for what your troop is doin', and that rule is pretty common in most successful scout troops, even if it's only somethin' that's strongly discouraged. Where a strict prohibition on parent MBC's is unreasonable, IMO, is if a parent is clearly the only/best counselor in the area for a specialty badge, eh? If Joe's dad is the only Atomic Energy counselor in the district, and Joe is really interested in the badge but no other boy is, well have at it! Joe should not be denied an opportunity to earn the badge. Dat's the point of da BSA's rule, eh?

 

But if yeh need an answer, long or short, mine is "yes" they can set that expectation, and it's a common one that many good troops set. Generally, units and COs can be more restrictive about rules and safety. In some units, COs restrict MBCs to people who have passed the CO's youth protection training and screening, which might be more strict than da BSAs. Some CO's restrict MBCs for some badges (like Family Life) to adults who are CO members or share their view about the role and importance of Family.

 

Of course if yeh don't agree, yeh can always go to another troop. In fact, they might insist. Yeh don't make any friends for yourself or your son by insistin' your family can ignore a rule everyone else feels is reasonable, eh? Especially when everyone's still got a bad taste in their mouth from da last parent who abused the system.

 

And yeh might find that troops that don't set expectations which prevent "spur of the moment family MB counseling" have weaker programs than you'd like.

 

Beavah

 

[Michdlew5]

All good points. My son is a Star scout with 22 merit badges so we are familiar with the drill. He has never counseled with his father before,or me, all others being different counselors. The situation came up when my husband, took my son to work to learn about metalwork. He took the requirements with him and they made the two projects. They completed the badge together and my son had a great time with his dad. Nothing wrong with alittle dad and son time

In our troop, this is a much desired badge for the boys. My husband has agreed to come and put together some projects and let the boys weld something and complete the badge with all 17 boys.

Our Scoutmaster has also worked on some badges with her son; Family Life and Camping. So this has just come up in our troop when we discovered this rule in our bylaws.

I understand that it is good for the troop to use our resources, and we do. I think we can encourage a counselor to give a class but can we hold a badge because he hasn't done it yet??

I am the Advancement Chair in our troop. Which by the way is a great troop, I would not consider leaving over this. I am just trying to figure out if we can keep this rule in our bylaws. It does sound like other troops do the same thing. I can understand why, I just didn't know if the national boyscouts were in agreement (whoever they are!) Does it contradict or have we just added to the rule? From what I hear other troops are doing it.

Thanks so much for all the feedback.(This message has been edited by Michdlew5)

[OldGreyEagle]

NO, a troop cannot make a by-law that supercedes a National Policy. BSA National Policy is that there are no prohibitions on who a scout earns a merit badge from, so no, your troop cannot have a rule that says otherwise.

 

One could question what good by-laws are if you just "discovered" a law and now have to scramble to follow it

 

Having said that there is no National Policy about how many and who a scout may earn a merit badge from, there is a lot to be said for having the scout seek out as many counselors as possible. Adult Association is a method of the Boy Scout Program and its central jewel is the merit badge program. So, no you cant have a rule against a parent counseling a scout for a merit badge but yes, ancourage the scout to have as many as possible merit badge counselors.

 

Funny, the tendency is to think the parent will allow the scout to skate through a badge, in my experience, the son is most likely to be held to a much higher standard than anyone else. If the scout is passed and doesnt know his stuff, why would you keep the parent as a counselor?

 

Edited Part

Of course, a counselor has to be specificallu approved by the Disitrct to counsel any badge(This message has been edited by OldGreyeagle)

[scoutldr]

"The situation came up when my husband, took my son to work to learn about metalwork. He took the requirements with him and they made the two projects. They completed the badge together and my son had a great time with his dad. Nothing wrong with alittle dad and son time."

 

Nothing wrong at all...as long as Dad is a registered Merit Badge Counselor before they begin work.

 

[fgoodwin]

scoutldr writes:Nothing wrong at all...as long as Dad is a registered Merit Badge Counselor before they begin work.Agreed, and I would add, as long as the SM authorized the boy to work on this MB beforehand.

[scottteng]

The no one boy with a MB counselor stems from youth protection guidelines. We have a similar rule. If you find a troop that is ignoring youth protection guidelines run far and fast in the opposite direction. We always ask the boys wanting to take a badge to find a buddy to work on it with him this is to make it convenient for the merit badge counselor preventing any possible one on one contact.

I have experienced the anyone but dad thing my son does not want to take any merit badges from me as I am too hard on him. He especially prefers the younger counselors at summer camp. In this area we have lots of museums and parks that cater to boy scouts and girl scouts offering merit badges and having their full time professional staff certified as MB counselors

[Oak Tree]

The BSA description of getting a counselor is that the SM will provide the name of the counselor. So I think that a Scoutmaster could certainly choose not provide a boy with his dad's name.

 

I don't believe the troop's policy contradicts BSA policy, so long as the Scoutmaster is on board with the policy.

 

I'm with Beavah - this appears to be a common practice, and seems reasonable and permissible to me. The BSA rule is that you are allowed to be a counselor for your own son - but it doesn't say the Scoutmaster is required to assign a dad.

[CalicoPenn]

BSA advancement policy is clear - Parents, if they are a registered merit badge counselor, are allowed to counsel their own children in the merit badges they are registered counselors for.

 

BSA policy is also clear that Councils and Units can not add to, subtract from, or change any National BSA advancement policy (or any other National BSA policy for that matter). National Policies are not optional. A Council or Unit doesn't get to decide that the National G2SS policy on firearms isn't realistic so it can be tweaked. The same is true in this situation.

 

The procedure for earning a Merit Badge does not include getting a Scoutmasters approval for a Scout to work on a badge, or for a Scoutmasters approval of a Merit Badge Counselor. The Scoutmaster signs the "blue card" as an acknowledgement that s/he is aware that the Scout is working on a specific merit badge. The Scoutmaster provides a list of merit badge counselors for a merit badge that the Scout chooses from - the Scoutmaster can steer a Scout towards one counselor or another, but can't outright ban a Scout from using any particular counselor.

 

If the Unit's "bylaws" are in opposition to BSA Policy, then BSA Policy wins.

 

Calico

[Oak Tree]

Here's a quote from scouting.org:

"Pick a Subject. Talk to your Scoutmaster about your interests. Read the requirements of the merit badges you think might interest you. Pick one to earn. Your Scoutmaster will give you the name of a person from a list of counselors." (bold is my formatting.)

 

That seems pretty clear.

 

I agree that parents can be counselors. I agree that BSA policy would trump troop policy. But BSA policy is that the Scoutmaster gives the name, as near as I can tell. And he can choose the parent, or he can choose someone else.

 

http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/GuideforMeritBadgeCounselors/Review/MeritBadges.aspx

 

I normally let my Scouts choose from the list themselves. But I'd reserve the right to steer them away from counselors that seemed way too easy (or way too hard, for that matter).

[Michdlew5]

Thanks for your comments. Because it is/was a troop bylaw, I will have my son meet with another counselor that I will find through council.

 

While looking through the link that OakTree sent, from the Boy Scouts National Council, I did find in the Frequently Asked Questions:

 

Question: Can merit badge counselors coach their own sons or close relatives (for instance, a nephew)?

Answer: Yes, but only if the young man is part of a group of Scouts who are all working on the same merit badge. Approved counselors may coach any Boy Scout who contacts them through the proper procedures.

 

Does make sense since it would solve the problem of a leader or counselor,that is a parent rushing their child through the badges.

[FScouter]

If that is the case, what is the purpose of a local unit "bylaw"?

[eisely]

As another poster commented, "adult association" is one of the eight methods of scouting and dealing with non parental merit badge counselors is one way of doing that. It is correct that BSA national policy has no restriction on parental MB counseling, but I would think it prudent for a troop to line up at least two counselors for the eagle required badges to minimize this conflict of interest question.

 

As with the metal worker, I have counseled two of my sons on canoeing MB because there were no other qualified adults. This was all done in the context of extended canoe treks where all the boys were working on the MB. I also cleared that with the troop and the district advancement committee ahead of time.