troop committee

[Bob White]

I can think of several reasons. One is its a private meeting of a private organization. I belong to lots of groups where it is not open to the public. Our chartering oprganization is a private yacht club, they have executive board meetings that even club members are not invited to attend and I guarantee that an interested party can't just walk in off the streets. In your business can just anyone walk into a management meeting? Can any employee even invite themselves into a management meeting.

 

Families are the customers that the unit serves. Can you go into the management meeting of any store where you are a customer. Are you even told when those meetings are?

 

You are taking the passage out of context. It is refering to youth protection in youth activities, and secret organizations... the committee is neither.

 

Often times the committee discusses personnel, family involvement, youth behavioral problems and other matters that should not be discussed in front of scouts or other adults. Others can be invited when applicable or can request an invite, or units can choose to make them public. My point was that they are not required to be open by law or by the BSA.

[Eagledad]

>>I can't understand why you would even want to tell a parent, "No, you can't come to this committee meeting. It is private."

[Trevorum]

Well, we're not talking about yacht club meetings or business meetings. We're talking about Scouter meetings, for whom the National Organization has said, "All aspects of the Scouting program are open to observation by parents and leaders." I don't know how much clearer it can be.

 

Now, Barry makes a reasonable point (as always). There might be very special cases where the Committee Chair would want to "bend" the rules and have a special meeting of invitees only. Nonetheless, a strict reading of the rules must conclude that all Scout functions are required to be open to [any and all] parents.

 

 

 

(Of course all this is why lawyers make the big bucks - parsing vague laws and interpreting their meaning.)

[Gold Winger]

I would argue that a Committee meeting is NOT part of the Scouting program. The Scouting program is what happens with the Scouts. The campouts, the meeting, the ritual sacrifices.

 

We always say, "The Scoutmaster is in charge of the program." That's not a committee meeting.

[Bob White]

Do you believe a parent can walk in an a meeting at the council office? That is an aspect of scouting is it not? Can you just walk into any meeting at the national office? That is an aspect of scouting is it not?

 

This passage you quote is related specifically to YOUTH PROTECTION situations. Your unit committee meeting is no different than the exececutive board meeting at a private yacht club.

 

If you wish to open your doors to everyone and anyone you can make that choice, but you are not required to. Since there are no youth present the youth protection rules do not apply.

 

Now you might consider not repeating yourself lest you invite in the local community theater's rendition of "Annie Get Your Gun".

 

 

[FScouter]

Gee, I wonder who's gonna have the last word on this one?? Well it's not over until Ed gets in his .2cents worth. Let's get it over with today so we can start fresh tomorrow with a new argument.

[Trevorum]

 

 

 

OK - Ed, it's your turn.

 

 

 

 

[CalicoPenn]

I'm not Ed, but I feel like adding my two cents.

 

I agree with Trevorum. Scouting, in its G2SS, specifically states that all aspects of the Scouting program are open to observation by parents and leaders. Committee meetings are part of the Scouting program (it's a real stretch to argue that Boy Scout Troop Committee Meetings, which are only necessary because the BSA granted a charter for the BSA program to a chartering organization, isn't part of the Scouting program), and therefore are an aspect of the Scouting Program that is open to observation. As the G2SS states, there are no secret organizations in the BSA. Closing committee meetings to parents makes the Committee a "secret organization" - which is not allowed. There may be very rare times when a Committee may hold a portion of their meeting as a closed session to deal with some kind of disciplinary action (which really shouldn't be handled by the Committee anyway - that's something that really should be dealt with by the COR, CC and SM - all of whom may talk to individual members of the Committee separately and outside a meeting to solicit advice). While the purpose of the Committee is to support the "program" of the Unit (and don't confuse Unit program elements with the Scouting Program), the discussions in and the results of these meetings affect the boys in the Unit - and that alone should be enough to ensure that any parent, or any leader, may attend a Committee Meeting as an observer (not as a participant, but as an observer). Its not just about "child molestation" - its about maintaining and open atmosphere for parental comfort.

 

Also, depending on your State, it may be illegal for a non-profit organization that does fund raising outside of simple membership dues to close their meetings, even their board meetings, to their members (not the public - their members). Executive Board meetings would be exempt because Executive Boards aren't generally allowed to make binding decisions on an organization affecting its membership, bylaws, hiring, firing, revenue and expenses, without gaining agreement by the full board at an open meeting (though a board can go into closed session in most states to discuss and make personnel decisions, though they have to announce that decision at an open board session). Executive Boards meet not to make decisions/policy, but to discuss strategies and recommendations they'll make to a full board.

 

As for an SPL at a Committee Meeting - I'd think that would be a pretty rare event. The Scoutmaster is, indeed, the representative of the Scouts at the Committee Meeting - its part of his job. The SPL is busy enough running his own meetings - the PLC and the Troop Meetings - as well as making sure there is plenty of Leadership coverage at campouts and other outings, without having to worry about attending a Committee Meeting. Many Troops ask the SPL to appear briefly at one or two Committee Meetings per year - usually to talk about the results of a planning weekend, and perhaps to give a quick talk about some of the happenings with the Troop at Summer Camp.

 

Calico

[Oak Tree]

Can I agree with everyone?

 

We do not ask the SPL to attend the committee meeting. Not sure why I'd want to try to bore my SPL to death. There's no secrets there, nor anything I'd not want him to hear, but I don't see much benefit, either. Different troops might have different styles, and I'd say it's fine to have the SPL attend, if you want to run it that way.

 

I agree that the committee meeting is normally open to all parents, but I do think the committee is perfectly welcome to go into closed session. I do not believe the committee meeting is part of "the Scouting program" that must be open to observation, any more than the council meetings where they discuss hiring and firing personnel. My understanding of that rule is that anything involving the Scouts is part of the Scouting program, and that the way I see the spirit of that rule - to make sure that kids are always safe.

 

As for fundraisers, you can find some long discussions about that on these forums. Our troop splits some of it among the boys for some fundraisers, and for others will put all the money into the troop treasury.

[Gold Winger]

"Also, depending on your State, it may be illegal for a non-profit organization that does fund raising outside of simple membership dues to close their meetings, even their board meetings, to their members"

 

Since most parents aren't members, they could be excluded.

 

" Executive Board meetings would be exempt because . . . "

 

What is the committee if not the executive board?

[evmori]

I, too, agree with Trev! Open to all means open to all! If my unit is having a committee meeting & a parent not on the committee wants to attend, they are welcome.

 

" Gee, I wonder who's gonna have the last word on this one?? Well it's not over until Ed gets in his .2cents worth. Let's get it over with today so we can start fresh tomorrow with a new argument."

 

If I would have posted this it would have been deleted! Guess what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[acco40]

Um ... I think some of you are thinking with your hearts, not your head. Bob White is correct. Committee meetings may be closed.

 

Take a deep breath and read the G2SS carefully.

SECTION 1 - Youth Protection & Adult Leadership

Barriers to Abuse Within Scouting

The BSA has adopted the following policies to provide additional security for our members. These policies are primarily for the protection of our youth members; however, they also serve to protect our adult leaders from false accusations of abuse.

 

Note: Bold type denotes rules and policies.

 

Two-deep leadership.

Two registered adult leaders or one registered leader and a parent of a participant, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older, are required on all trips and outings. The chartered organization is responsible for ensuring that sufficient leadership is provided for all activities.

 

No one-on-one contact.

One-on-one contact between adults and youth members is not permitted. In situations that require personal conferences, such as a Scoutmaster's conference, the meeting is to be conducted in view of other adults and youths.

 

Respect of privacy.

Adult leaders must respect the privacy of youth members in situations such as changing clothes and taking showers at camp, and intrude only to the extent that health and safety require. Adults must protect their own privacy in similar situations.

 

Separate accommodations.

When camping, no youth is permitted to sleep in the tent of an adult other than his own parent or guardian. Councils are strongly encouraged to have separate shower and latrine facilities for females. When separate facilities are not available, separate times for male and female use should be scheduled and posted for showers.

 

Proper preparation for high-adventure activities.

Activities with elements of risk should never be undertaken without proper preparation, equipment, clothing, supervision, and safety measures.

 

No secret organizations.

The Boy Scouts of America does not recognize any secret organizations as part of its program. All aspects of the Scouting program are open to observation by parents and leaders.

 

blah, blah blah

 

So yes, it is in the context of youth protection. Think of it like Bob White said; I think I'll invite myself to the Scout Executives performance review. What? You mean I can't attend? It says in G2SS that all aspects of the Scouting program are open to observation! What? Oh, now I understand.

 

That said, we allow all parents, as observers only, to attend our committee meetings. If some special circumstance exists, such as in Barry's example, we don't necessarily deal with it on a committee level but possibly on a subset of the committee and Scoutmaster.

 

[scottteng]

I'll chip in my $.02 as well. Our committee runs their meetings concurrently with our troop meetings in another room at the same facility. The SM, ASM's nor any of the youth leaders are in attendance at their meetings except when they are summoned to be there, usually to support something they are advocating the committee do. The committee runs the business of the troop. We may want to travel to the ends of the earth to attend a real cool summer camp but the committee examines our current finances and will shoot down any and all proposals that do not fit their budget. They also try and encourage long term goal setting ie. if the troop has sufficient funds raised by next year when we are considering end of the earth camp then we will consider it. Parents of all troop members are welcome to attend committee meetings especially new crossovers they are drafted for a simple task at first then progressively more challenging ones. A troop can never have enough committee members especially when trying to put together boards of review.

[Beavah]

Yah, I'm not Ed either, but I'm with da BobWhite. It's all about understandin' the purpose da rules are tryin' to achieve, not gettin' hung up on the letter.

 

There are some units for whom all committee meetings are open. That's most common in cubs, eh? Some units even sign up all parents as MC's. That can work great so long as da unit is small and the community is tight and everyone are friends. Or, "it works great, until it doesn't."

 

But there's plenty of other ways of doin' business, too. Some units use the youth ministry board of their church as a committee. Some use outside directors. Some run on just da minimum gang of three who meet in the pastor's office.

 

What's necessary for a good committee is that each person who serves shares da vision, and has the long-term interests of the program as their reason for service. Not the self-interest of their own son(s) needs. Preferably, each MC should bring a different set of talent and experiences.

 

Good unit committees often deal with challengin' or private issues. A SM may need to discuss the behavior of an ASM or a kid, without telegraphin' it to world. Decisions may be taken to help support lads whose families are in financial difficulty, and that should remain confidential. How to support medical issues of parents and youth members may be a topic, also private. Mrs. Jones' habit of gettin' distracted while she's driving might come up. And da best committees are plannin' strategically, talkin' about where the unit should be in 5-10 years, eh? Stuff that doesn't even apply to a current boy and his parents. There needs to be a "safe haven" where these kinds of private and long-term discussions can happen, eh? It makes for a much healthier program.

 

But ultimately, the committee is a private group functioning within the CO. It's as open as the CO wants it to be.

 

Me personally, I don't encourage completely open committees outside of cubs. Aside from everything above, there's a danger with the "open committee" thing when yeh get bigger, or get more diverse. "Problem parents". Folks who do not have the long-term best interests of da program in mind, just what they can get for their own kid. That makes for contentious committee meetings, eh? People showin' up just to complain that junior had to stay at camp until they finished cleaning up when he had a soccer game to go to. How many messages are there on these forums where some unit committee is at each others' throats and the whole thing is being tossed back in da CO's lap to resolve? But it's not just about "problem parents", eh? It's that all parents naturally want to get things for their kids. Absent a very strong SM or CC, open committees tend over time to lead to Merit Badge Mills and Advancement Factories. Just da way things naturally get "pushed."

 

Nobody's sayin' there shouldn't be good program communication with parents, eh? But that doesn't have to happen at the committee/board of directors level. That's the SM and PLC's job.

 

Beavah

 

[Trevorum]

Yes, I admit, BW is of course correct. (choke, choke)