Eagle Board of Review and God

[buffalojoe]

I KNOW i'm about to step on about 33% of the actively enrolled scout units toes here when i say this but here it goes...

 

After reading the Handbook of Instructions of Priesthood Leaders: Scouting put out by the mormon church, I view how they have "adjusted the program to fit within church standards" a greater compromise to the values of scouting than any wiccan group could possibly be.

 

Paraphrased:

 

For instance, all male members aged 12 or older, no matter their level of participation in church activities or membership in a different troop, and are members of record shall be enrolled in the scout program, whether active or not.

 

or,

 

Troop leadership positions are to be considered callings in the church. as such, priesthood leaders should carefully pray before making a selection. Calls can be extended to worthy non member scouts as long as they agree to live by the standards of the church.

 

LDS units should not sponser or participate in "specialty organizations" that focus on a single topic such as an occupation or hobby.

 

---------------------

 

By their own instructions, the boys have no say in who leads the troop. I though scouting was boy led.

 

Second, if i were to enroll every boy over the age of 11 in my parish in scouts, I'd be thrown out of scouting, stripped of my ticket and possibly eagle, for artificially inflating membership.

 

and last this excludes them from explorers, varstity, sea scouts and ventures. In my district we have a troop that citing this to keep their boys out of the OA.

 

So yeah there is hippocracy esp when it comes to BSA/LDS relations.

 

for those who want to get and read a copy of this publication it can be ordered here:

 

 

http://www.ldscatalog.com/

 

its item number 35814000 and its free. Terrifying read when you consider the ramifications this would have in legitimate scouting.

[Bob White]

Buffalojoe,

I pray you have a better understanding of Catholicism than you do if scouting. Scouting is not boy run, Troop and patrol activities a boy lead. There is a difference. I know of nothing in the BSa priogram that gives youth the responsibility, or the authority to select the adult leadership. That is the responsibility of the Committee chairpaers and either the charter organization head or the charter organization representative.

 

An LDS unit that selects its leaders through thoughtful pryer is doing a better job than the troop that stands beofre a crown of parents and says "we need 'somebody' to gbe the Scoutmaster."

 

If you get every parent to register every 11 year old in your parish in the church's troop then good for you...no GREAT for you, and great for scouts. In some countries scouting is a part of the school system and every age eligible youth gets two years of compulary scouting.

 

Are you inflating the numbers? Not if you have a parent signed application and they meet the program eligibilities.

 

You will not be stripped of your Eagle award for recruiting several scouts, and I have no idea how one is stripped of their ticket? As a seminarian trying to force the BSA to recognize paganism seems to me a far more self-destructive past time than trying to recruit every 11 year old boy in to scouting.

 

So what if the LDS Church chooses not to do Venturing or Sea Scouting. (and you should already know that the Varsity program is almost entirely an LDS program), lot's of COs choose to only sponsor one type of unit.

No unit is required to support the OA program.

 

You really are way off base on this.

 

Dan

While the church of scientology might be a chartering institution you will note that they do not have a BSA recognized religious award either. But I am unaware or any belief held by the scientologists that would prohibit them from having a Scout unit, can you.

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Trevorum]

Dan,

Society changes slowly (and the BSA changes even slower). The Department of Defense and Arlington National Cemetery now officially recognize Wicca as a religious faith practiced by Americans. Soldiers killed in Iraq can now have the pentagram on their tombstone. It's a step.

[PeteM]

I read a lot about different faiths and religions like Judaism, Catholicism, Wicca, etc., what about one of the largest supporters of Scouting, the "Latter Day Saints"?

How do the LDS troops figure into all of this?

 

Pete

[Bob White]

The same as any Christian faith. Remember the requirement isn't to belong to a religion it is to be reverent to God and perform your duty to God. The BSA does not define God.

[Vicki]

Bob, a couple of things I think we could discuss (and they have been discussed, ad nauseum, elsewhere on the board, I bring them up here just to keep us honest), were we of a mind to do so - 1) that the LDS is treated "the same as any other Christian faith." As has been noted in various places on the board, they aren't - treated the same, that is. Because of the numbers of scouts involved with the LDS and because they have incorporated it as an integral part of their religious practice, if one looks at the way they run their version of scouting, it isn't the same. That's just the way it is and I'm not out to get into a protracted debate, just saying there is more than adequate room for disagreement between reasonable parties on that point. 2) that LDS is Christian. THAT one I'm certainly not going to get into a protracted debate about, but if you do your research, it's fairly obvious their faith doesn't view Christ the same way Christians do. I'm OK with that in terms of tolerance, just pointing it out. Suffice to say that, again, there is more than adequate room for disagreement between reasonable parties.

 

Vicki

[Bob White]

Vicki, the question was in relation to board of reviews and religion. and the fact is that religion is not an element of a board of review.

 

So to answer the question "how does LDS figure into this?", they don't. Neither do the other religions. The requirement does not ask about religion. and being active in a formal religion is not needed in order to fulfill the requirement.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[GernBlansten]

Ah, but the LDS has integrated scouting into their youth program and the two have become so intertwined that one cannot survive without the other. Can a scout who meets the requirements of BSA but not those of the LDS have grounds to appeal to national? Or is that scout told to just find a non-LDS unit? Is the LDS adding requirements?

[Bob White]

Are you aware of any requirements that the LDS church has added in conflict with the BSA or are you just imagining that such a condition exists?

[GernBlansten]

I believe that certain PORs require elements of the LDS priesthood be met.

[evmori]

Vicki, the question was in relation to board of reviews and religion. and the fact is that religion is not an element of a board of review.

 

Bob,

What exactly do you mean by

 

and the fact is that religion is not an element of a board of review.?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[DanKroh]

BobWhite asks: "While the church of scientology might be a chartering institution you will note that they do not have a BSA recognized religious award either. But I am unaware or any belief held by the scientologists that would prohibit them from having a Scout unit, can you."

 

Yes, I can think of several beliefs I would consider inconsistent with scouting. However, I don't wish to turn the discussion here into one about the beliefs of the CoS, but of the inconsistency the BSA in treating non-mainstream religions (which is already enough of a hijack, and I apologize to the OP for that). Let's turn that around, Bob, are you aware of any belief held by Wiccans that would prohibit them from having a Scout unit?

 

I think it's a good bet that the CoS isn't even going to bother putting forth an award until they meet the 25 unit rule, if at all. They are a bit too secretive to be willing to put the tenants of their "faith" out there for approval by someone else.

 

Trev,

 

Yes, there are small steps. The battle over the pentagram on the headstone was really quite an unbelievable bit of bigotry, considering they allow a symbol for atheists (not that they shouldn't have one). Like I said, it's not the exclusion by the BSA that bothers me so much as the hypocrisy of their "we welcome all religions" party line. Just some religions are more equal than others, obviously.

[packsaddle]

Dan, curiosity is about to kill me again, what's the atheist symbol?

[Bob White]

Gern

There is nothing in the policies of the BSA that keeps a unit from setting their own rerquirements for a POR. Setting requirements for a POR is not the same as adding or deleting requirements for a rank.

 

Dan asks, "Bob, are you aware of any belief held by Wiccans that would prohibit them from having a Scout unit?"

 

No I am not, but then am I am not the one saying that they are not qualified to be a CO as Gern and you are implying about the church or scientology, and buffalojoe has suggested about the Church of Latter Day Saints.

 

The fact is the church of scientology and the LDS church have submitted themselves to the BSA to be chartering organizations and were approved by the BSA. That alone makes them eligible. I suggest that if you know of actual elemnets of scientology or LDS that is counter to the aims and methods of scouting that you inform the BSA Relationship Committee for them to investigate.

 

[GernBlansten]

Bob,

Please quote a message from me that supports your assertion that I think the LDS is not qualified to be a CO.