council policy on buying rank patches? or national?

[ScoutNut]

Actually I believe the need for an advancement report in order to purchase rank badges is the National policy, with local policy being that the badges are available to anyone.

 

Also, you can NOT simply purchase a badge of rank from ScoutStuff.org. It states for all Boy Scout Rank Insignia -

 

"This is a restricted item. Available only in your local council trading post or Scout Shop with required paperwork."

 

 

[ScoutNut]

BTW, if the boys are all registered Boy Scouts, and have completed all of the requirements while being registered Boy Scouts, what is stopping you from filling out an advancement report and taking it to your local Scout Shop? You have over a month to get the badges. What is the problem?

 

Unless of course they are attending BS Troop meetings as Webelos Cub Scouts and doing Boy Scout requirements before they are registered as Boy Scouts.

 

That, to me, is a bigger problem than not being able to purchase badges without paperwork.

[scoutldr]

That is the policy here, as well. NO advancement report, no rank badges. It was necessary because troops were stockpiling badges, and the paperwork never got submitted...not a problem until the Eagle application got stopped cold. They do make allowances to buy a badge for a spare shirt, but we still have to submit an advancement report, sign it and certify that it is for a new shirt.

[SctDad]

Check Out these two links

 

http://usscouts.org/advance/docs/Scout.pdf

 

http://www.geocities.com/~pack215/arrow-of-light.html

 

Looks like to me that a lot of the requirements are the same for the joining requirements of Boysscouts (Not a rank) and the Arrow of Light

 

Just my observation

[jmwalston]

In regards to the observation, while the AOL and Scout badge do have almost identical requirements, the Scout badge does require a Scoutmaster Confernce. Scout is not an automatic crossover badge. Leader Specific Training for SM/ASM stresses the importance of the Scoutmaster Conference and the part it plays in the Troop advancement program. Every step in the advancement system, including Scout and Eagle Palms, which aren't "ranks", requires a Scoutmaster Conference.

 

The only way I can see a Webelos bridging over and receiving his Scout badge at the same ceremony is if he had already registered with a Troop, attended that Troop's meetings, and had a Scoutmaster Conference.

 

I do not presume that this is the scenario being proposed, but if such was the case, the youth should already be wearing red shoulder tabs and is a Boy Scout, not a Webelos.

[Stosh]

Our council requires an advancement report to get patches and I've never heard of anyone here complaining about it. The instant recognition thingy seems to have been left behind in the Cubbing years for the most part in our neck of the woods.

 

My boys earn their rank and then receive it and card at the next Court of Honor. The COH's are indicated well in advance, are coordinated with major rank inititives i.e. summer camp, and if the boys have to wait a few weeks, it's not that big of a deal. Even after they get the badge, it may take a week or two, or three or four to get them sewn on. We do not overly emphasize rank advancement as a whole in our troop so it doesn't influence much of the other parts of our program.

 

I presently have 3 boys PL's of three patrols and one is Scout, one is First Class and one is Life. They all happen to all be within 1 year of each other in age. Rank is personal accomplishment, POR is patrol/troop functionality, our boys know the difference. Rank can wait to be recognized, POR cannot.

 

Stosh

[jmwalston]

Our District is big on the instant recognition for Boy Scouts, but not for Cubs. The Packs like to hold all awards other than Bobcat and belt loops until the Blue and Gold Banquet. The Troops I work with tend to hold merit badges for the CoH.

 

I have not encountered a problem with our Council Scout Shop, but then again, I don't use it. I have the luxury of a National Scout Shop which is 45 minutes closer to me. And I've never bought rank in bulk. I have bought sets for use with FOS or Advancement Manias. The staff there are familar with me and it seems that they exercise the rule of "A Scout is Trustworthy" when I've made a purchase.

[SR540Beaver]

In a previous troop I served, we did the immediate recognition thing by giving the boy his rank patch immediately following his BOR and then giving him his card and the mother's pin at the next COH.

 

In the current troop I serve, we have large replicas of each scout rank badge on the front wall of our meeting room. When a boy joins the troop, he is given a standard sized blank of wood to decorate with his name any way he wishes. This piece of wood has two small eye screws and two small hook screws. When he makes rank, he moves his name from one rank badge to the next during a meeting. He then gets his badge and card at the next COH.

 

While I don't mind this method, I prefer the immediate receipt of the badge itself so the boy can get it sewn on his shirt. If we expect a boy to be correctly uniformed, shouldn't that include his current rank? Why make him wait a possible 3 to 4 months?

 

As far as the scout shop policy. I believe they started following that policy in our council in the last couple of years. It has never been my task to pick up insignia. Since my son and I went to the 2005 Jambo, we both have multiple uniforms. We keep two of his shirts up to date, so I have been known to go in and buy additional rank patches when he has earned a new rank. Since I was a Jambo ASM for the scout shop manager's son, he knew me and let me buy the additional patch for the additional uniform with no problem.

[dnorrington]

At the University of Scouting in Indianapolis in January, we were informed that the Crossroads of America Council began enforcing the 'no advancement report...no purchasing rank patches" policy due to the fact that the advancement cards are now available for download on certain internet websites. My Council is also enforcing this policy now as well (not sure when they officially started enforcing it locally). I am sure that the problem with advancement reports not getting filed also contributed to this.

 

Regarding the Scout Badge issue...

 

We recently had 4 Arrow of Light recipients cross over into our Troop. The Pack banquet was held the week before our Troop banquet. We had the Webelos fill out their Boy Scout applications at the Pack banquet, then we submitted them the following Monday. On Friday of that week, after their applications had been processed, we submitted the advancement form fo 4 Scout badges. We did hold the SM Conference prior to completing the advancement report.

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah, yeh know, sometimes I reckon we take ourselves a little bit too seriously, eh?

 

Rank patches are meaningful things for the lads, as they should be. But they aren't the security codes to the nuclear arsenal. When we adults start takin' things too seriously we just take away from what matters to the kids.

 

I'm with T164 and SR540. I think a lad should finish his BOR and be awarded his rank patch that night. He should be able to come to his very next scouting event (even if it's the next day!) wearing his new badge of rank on his uniform properly. And IMO councils that are gettin' in the way of that should be reducing staffing. Anybody who has time to spend findin' such ways to actively reduce quality of service is clearly unnecessary overhead.

 

As far as I know, my home council has never gotten into this game, but I confess if they did I'd encourage units to just take a lad of each rank down to buy a half-dozen or so "replacements for lost badges and for extra uniforms" and then we'd keep 'em around for instant recognition, replacin' 'em with paperwork ones as they went.

 

As for Scout Badge, it's deliberately designed to match up with AOL, eh? Dat's the whole point - seamless transition. The capstone cub award meets the joining scout badge. Even the Scoutmaster Conference is part of the AOL requirements. Only thing that isn't, IIRC, is the parent pamphlet on youth protection.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[GNX Guy]

T164,

 

In the time you wrote your 1st post here, you could have wrote the boy's names on the advancment report and handed it too the person behind the desk at the Scout shop. What's the big deal? It's policy in every council I'm aware of. Simply a way for them to keep track of things.

 

According to the Scoutmaster's handbook, this Scoutmaster conference should take place 1-2 months before they crossover. It also suggests that the crossover be conducted at the Blue & Gold. For new, non cubscouts that join the SM conference should be held as soon as possible after joining.

 

I might suggest reading pages 136 thru 139 in the Scoutmaster's handbook to clarify things for you.

 

[jmwalston]

I interpret the SM Conference for AOL and Scout as two separate items, i.e. two separate conferences. The first conference is for the AOL. The second is for the Scout badge. To state that the SM Conferences for the two are one for both is to say that a Webelos visits a Troop and has a Conference as part of the requirements for his AOL. At crossover, he joins a different Troop, but since he has already had a SM Conference, he now should be awarded the Scout badge. Supposedly, there is no "double-dipping" with requirements.

[dnorrington]

The Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual states the following on page 20:

 

"The Webelos badge and Arrow of Light requirements include all of the joining requirements for the Scout badge."

[jmwalston]

So you may earn a Boy Scout badge while registered as a Webelos?

[molscouter]

Yes and no.

 

Suppose crossover is Monday night and the Troop meets on Tuesdays. If the WDL has done his/her job, and the parents fill out the application and do the Youth Protection part, he could walk into the Troop meeting the next night, hand in his application, go over the other requirements, and have his Scoutmaster Conference. Presto, he's earned his Scout badge. But his application hasn't been processed by the council yet, so technically, he's still registered as a Webelo.