Why First Class First Year?

[Philt]

Here are the conclusions we reached, and why:

 

1. There is a direct relationship between a Scout reaching First Class in his first year and his retention for a second year. This did not surprise us, of course, but the percentage re-registering did.

 

2. A unit's general program directly affects it's advancement program, as it should. (Very unscientific conclusion).

 

3. A unit's general program may have as much effect on retention as its advancement program. We were very surprised at the number of Scouts with no rank advancement, or Tend and 2nd, who re-registered.

 

Lisabob, I fully agree that Scouts who are motivated are going to reach First Class and re-register. However, the emphasis of our study was to talk about the 74 out of 305 first year Scouts in 2005 who did NOT re-register, and to suggest that a well-organized, well-planned, well-presented and FUN advancement program will help reduce that loss. In our presentation we ask the question: "Which is easier--keeping an existing Scout or recruiting a new one?"

[Eagledad]

>>We were very surprised at the number of Scouts with no rank advancement, or Tend and 2nd, who re-registered.

[Philt]

By the time we were done, we were able to provide the commissioner staff with stats by unit. I know they talked to the units showing a small level of advancement.

 

The number of Scouts reaching 1st Class was 101. Each of them was listed on the 2006 unit rosters after rechartering was completed.

[John-in-KC]

I'm not going to focus on the S-T-2 kids for a moment, I'm going to concentrate on the next two layers: Instructors and testers (who in a perfect world are also youth program members):

 

Adults have to influence the young people to become subject matter experts before they pass on a skill. If the instructor cannot demonstrate the task, his credibility is gone... and if that happens more than 1 or two times, it's gone forever, in all skills. I've seen it happen enough to be able to state it as a field observation.

 

Adults have to influence the young people to learn reasonable skill teaching tecniques before sharing a skill. A silent demo with the object hidden, followed by "now go do it yourself" doesn't cut it. Train the trainer... to TRAIN, as well as in the subject matter.

 

Adults have to set reasonable standards for the youth who will sign off tasks. If the 2d Class scout cooking the meals fed his patrol essence of carbon 3 times, did he successfully cook the meal? I think not. We have to influence the youth that they come up with a good idea of "what right looks like."

 

BTW, Beavah is right about his calendar... if the requirement is to cook 3 meals for your patrol (as it is at First Class), then a NSP of 8 boys needs at least 8 months for all to cycle through the task of Patrol Cook!

[BrentAllen]

Well, not if they cook at Summer Camp, which is another good reason to do that instead of eating at the Dining Hall.

[evmori]

I also analyze data for a living & I agree with Barry that the 100% number is unrealistic over time. While this could happen for one year, I doubt you would see this continue year over year. There are too many factors in play to maintain 100%. The Tenderfoot & 2nd Class numbers are more realistic & probably a better representation of the actual advancement rates.

 

Was there any other data analysis done on other years? If not, I would not use the results of one year to state a program works.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

I don't see how you can argue Philt's 100% result!

 

He never said that 100% was his goal. He said that in his sampling 100% was the measured result.

 

Eagledad disagrees saying that you will ALWAYS have someone who moves. Really? ALWAYS? I can agree that it is possible that in a sampling someone might move but is it a requirement that in every sampling someone will move? I don't think it is. Evidently in Philts sampling no one did.

 

I know when my wife was a den leader she had the exact same kids for 4 years and no one moved the entire time.

 

I think if in Philt's sampling no one did, then evidently...no one did.(This message has been edited by Bob White)(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[FScouter]

I really see no point in quibbling over statistics, samples, and data anomalies as it relates to First Class Emphasis Must you have undeniable statistics to "prove" any other part of the BSA program? Where are the stats that show a 90 minute troop meeting works? A campout every month? A court of honor? The patrol method?

[Beavah]

By the time we were done, we were able to provide the commissioner staff with stats by unit. I know they talked to the units showing a small level of advancement.

 

Yah, good on your district for usin' this data, Philt. I've always found da unit-level advancement and retention reports to be interestin', and they can help a good Commish think about things before visitin' a unit. It's really easy from advancement reports to see "badge mill operations" in particular.

 

Taken in combination with tour permit stats, LT camp info, and things yeh know about the neighborhood/community, CO, and some of da characters, yeh get a sense for the "outlines."

 

Then yeh go out and visit and observe and talk to people, and yeh get a better sense of what's really goin' on.

 

Beavah

 

[Eagledad]

>>Eagledad disagrees saying that you will ALWAYS have someone who moves. Really? ALWAYS? I can agree that it is possible that in a sampling someone might move but is it a requirement that in every sampling someone will move? I don't think it is. Evidently in Philts sampling no one did.

[Bob White]

Nothing personal about it Barry, just wondered why his result couldn't be 100% since that is what it was? I was hoping he wasn't going to have to go back and force some unsuspecting scout to move just because data isn't always prefect.

 

BW

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori]

We quibble over the statistics because there are claims National has data to back up the claim that Scouts who earn 1st Class in 12-14 months are retained at a higher rate than those who don't yet we have yet to see any of those statistics. A one year sample is a good start but not good enough to validate an entire claim. How many of the Scouts in that 100% were retained the next year? How may of the Scout who didn't advance or advanced to a rank lower than 1st Class were retained the following year?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

But Philt was not discussing the National figures he was telling you the recent, specific, results of the local program where he serves.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori]

You are absolutely correct, Bob. Those aren't National numbers Philt was providing. But my premise that one years worth of data doesn't support a claim that a program works still stands. As do the other questions I ask in the same post. This is a good start, but it is incomplete.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10