What does the requirement mean to you?

[Eamonn]

" the BSA standard of proficiency."

Beavah,

For the past day or two this BSA standard of proficiency has been on my mind.

The "Standard" should be clearly defined in the requirement?

 

Sadly I think many of us have met the SM,who takes great pride in sticking out his chest and informing us that in his Troop they do it his way and his way at times is a long way from what the requirement states.

Of course on the other side of the coin we might have met the Scout with the Swimming Merit Badge and the Lifesaving Merit Badge who has a hard time passing the BSA Swim test.

 

To date other than some Cub Scouters who were involved in the re-write of the Bear Book, I have never met and have never been involved with writing the requirements for Boy Scouts Ranks.

In the past I have had a bit of a problem with people who get really involved in Frist Aid.(For my job, I have to be trained in First Aid and my ID card has me listed as a Emergency Responder - This works wonders with the PA State Police!!) Seems to me that a lot of these First Aid types go above and beyond and a little over board when it comes to what a young Scout needs to know or just meeting the requirements as they are written. Of course this just might be me?

The people who write the requirements have a tough job.

On one hand the requirement has to be worth while and a challenge, but on the other it has to be something a Lad can look at and say to himself "This is doable and I can do it!"

If he sees it as being way over his head? Chances are that he is going to not even try.

We have had lengthy threads that have talked about how basic the training is for adult leaders and how if they want to find out more or get more training they might need to look outside of the BSA or find someone in the BSA who is some kind of a specialist in that area- whatever the area might be.

I'm wondering if maybe the requirements up to and including First Class should be viewed as a starting point? And seen as something to build upon?

I'm in no way saying that we don't do our best to teach the Scouts what they need to know and have them show that they do indeed know what is needed to meet or pass the requirement.

I think what I'm trying to say is that meeting the requirement should be seen as a beginning not an end.

Ea.

 

[gwd-scouter]

Interesting point Eamonn. An example of high expectations for first aid. At our fall camporee, one of the competitions was on first aid. The SM in charge told everyone at the Friday night's leader meeting that along with the activity he planned for the patrols - different scenarios such as a broken leg, head wound, etc. - he had a written test. He said he didn't expect anyone to get 100 on the test. He was right. He is a Red Cross First Aid/CPR instructor and the test he prepared was exhaustive. It was certainly more than the average 1st class Scout could handle and only a little easier for those guys with 1st aid merit badge. He did a good job going over it with the patrols and explaining the correct answers for what they got wrong, but I think what the guys came away with from the activity was to avoid it at next year's fall camporee. It took so much time they missed some of the other events in which they may have scored better. To use your words as far as the first aid activity is concerned, the Scouts may remember and say to themselves for next year "this is NOT doable and I won't do it."

 

[Beavah]

I think what I'm trying to say is that meeting the requirement should be seen as a beginning not an end.

 

Yah, I think this is exactly the purpose of my question, eh? To get a sense of where different people draw their line. For some it is "proficiency", for others, it's "introduction", for others it's "exposure to." That's what I was tryin' to capture with my #3, #2, #1.

 

From what I see in units, though, I don't think there's any worries about a lad thinkin' it's over his head and not even tryin'. If he's in a unit that does #1, it'll be new, and scary, but he'll be gettin' encouragement and he'll be seein' other kids succeeding and say "I can do this." If he's in a unit that sets the bar at #3, it'll be new, and scary, but he'll be gettin' encouragement and seein' other kids succeeding and say "I can do this." IMO the only spot where there's problems is if a lad transfers between units of different types, or runs into an EBOR with adults who set the bar different from what he's used to. That's where we get all the "don't add to the requirements/kids have no skills" arguments.

 

Thanks, gwd, for some great examples, eh? Your experience matches with mine. Units that do #2 and are very active might have one or two lads make FCFY, but 18 months is more typical. Da units that do #1 have a lot of lads make FCFY. Units that do #3 are typically 2-3 years to First Class.

 

It seems to me that da choice also corresponds a bit to how advancement-driven a unit is. To really push FCFY (#1), most of a unit's program has to be focused on advancement, at least for NSP. Units that treat the requirements like an introduction (#2) have room for other things, to put the introduction in context and have some other fun. Troops that do proficiency for signoffs (#3) seem to be mostly activity/outing focused rather than advancement focused to me, so it's normal that a lad will have several experiences plannin' a weekend's meals just in the normal course of things before he's signed off as proficient, or he'll have been on enough float trips to have a good sense for rules & safety, so planning safety for such a trip himself is only a small step up.

 

I'm not a strong advocate of one way over another, though I really like the kids in #3 type units. They get to FC and leadership roles at age 13-14, right when they're really ready (ages & stages) to step out and lead, and they've got some confidence and skills to do it. In terms of positive kid outcomes, those are the units I point to most often. Dat's why I think the BSA sets proficiency as its standard (on the one hand).

 

I know fine units of all three flavors, though.

 

Kid proficiency requires adult expertise, and that ain't always available, eh? An introduction (#2) may be best, then. And for some CO's like our LDS friends, #1 makes more sense, especially if yeh only get one night of camping per month instead of two, eh? So da BSA also sets FC emphasis and FCFY program goals as a counterpoint to da proficiency standard.

 

Any other folks? Where do yeh do a signoff for a requirement, at #1, #2, or #3? And when do your lads typically make First Class?

 

Beavah

 

[mdutch]

I think my troop is somewhere between #1 and #2. I think a lot of it depends on who is doing the sign-off. I listened to an instructor in the troop (who was also an EMT) talk about first aid for about half an hour, and then got all the first aid stuff for 1st class signed off. When it came to knots, one SMs rule was that you had to come back to him on a different day from when he taught it to you, to prove that you still remembered it. When I was signing off on those requirements, my rule was that they had to tie it 3 times without any help from me before I would sign it off.

Something like TF#1 "Present yourself to your leader, properly dressed, before going on an overnight camping trip. Show the camping gear you will use. Show the right way to pack and carry it." we would give more leeway on. If we didn't have time to do things before we left on the trip, the scout could go over the gear with a leader sometime during the camp out.

So I think we have a large variation both between how we treat different requirements and depending on what person was signing it off (probably not a good thing).

As to how long it takes scouts to get to first class, that varies. It depended on a scouts motivation. The year I joined, one of the scouts joining with me was planning on going to Jambo that summer, so he needed to be first class within a year. Me, on the other hand, I didn't really care much about advancement, so I took 1 year to get to tenderfoot, and another to get to 1st class. I know of one scout in the troop who after 4 years still wasn't first class (he was active, but didn't care about advancement, so never asked anybody to sign off requirements for him).