Questionable Eagle Project

[eolesen]

I personally like it... especially if the kid has any interest in Civil Engineering. I've worked on traffic studies before, and this isn't just a matter of standing outside with a clipboard for a couple hours.

 

Bringing to light a problem, collecting the supporting data to prove the hypothesis, and gathering support within the community to take action would certainly present a lot of opportunities for planning and leadership. Sure, it's not the typical project, but having looked at what constitutes an Eagle project in other troops and districts, I see this being unique, and having the potential to be a lot more challenging than doing a "books on tape" project...

 

I'll also disagree that the project wouldn't really be complete unless a light was installed. Feasibility studies are regularly done, and it sometimes takes two or three studies to actually result in the decision to fund a signal or provide a crossing guard.

 

 

[Gunny2862]

I agree with John, again.

 

Although I would definitely prefer that the Scout had enough time left for a backup project. I probably would not approve this for a 17 year old with less than a year left. Unless he was willing to do another, less reliant on the approval of others, project at the same time.

 

And yes, I think the Scout should approach the committee with the plan having done some homework. But that wouldn't prevent me from putting the idea out there in advance of his appearance that they should at the very least give consideration to his plan by "listening" to it. And then making a decision.

[AvidSM]

The risk in this proposal is the assumption that a traffic light is needed near a school. The city council may decide to do nothing with the scout's traffic study and petitions. What then has the scout accomplished? Where is the benefit to the community?

 

Even so, I would still keep an open mind and get more info from the scout. I would also talk to the DAC and see what he thinks. There is potential to demonstate leadership with this project.

[Beavah]

What then has the scout accomplished? Where is the benefit to the community?

 

I'd hate to see us start sayin' to kids that the development of knowledge and information isn't of benefit to the community. A heck of a lot of us get paid for that sort of "benefit" every day.

 

He's conducted a traffic study which may help da school in developing its own rules for traffic flow, or even which determined that the expense of a light wasn't worth it.

 

Beavah

 

[eolesen]

What then has the scout accomplished? Where is the benefit to the community?

 

It's not about what the scout accmplished -- it's what they learned in the process.

 

Some of the best Eagle projects are the ones that fall apart while underway. That's where leadership (or lack of) gets tested best.

[AvidSM]

There are lots of intersections where lights or traffic cops are not needed. Telling the city council something they already know hardly qualifies as helpful. A project must accomplish something or there is no benefit to the organization. Learning something while doing the project is not part of eagle requirment #5.

 

I see no reason to have a scout take a risk on a project that may yield no tangible results. It may be that everyone in the communnity knows that this intersection is dangerous and they are waiting for someone to do something about it. I don't know the details. I'm only pointing out the project risk.

[scoutingagain]

Well, I'm with those that would like to see this as a potential project, provided the scout can demonstrate how the project will involve his leadership of others. But I confess I work for a consulting/engineering firm and we get paid to produce work "products" that consist of nothing but paper frequently.

 

I think this project could qualify for Eagle provided it is framed the right way. Not all candidates need to build something for a project to be of service to the community. If the scout can get a $10,000 traffic study done for free, documenting either the need for a signal or a need for a part time crossing guard done, or no need at all, that's service and as others have noted there is opportunity for leadership here.

 

I disagree with the notion a light has to be installed for the project to be completed. I regard the study itself as a product, but I've told you where I work.

 

However, if I was advising this scout I might advise him that although his idea has merit and could be framed properly, he will need to be ready to explain to others, say at the District level, how this project meets the requirements for Eagle. As this thread has shown there is a good chance he could run into some resistance. Unless he's ready to fight that battle he might want to consider something less controversial and build a park bench.

Especially if he's going to turn 18 within the next 12 months.

 

 

SA

 

[Lisabob]

" If the scout can get a $10,000 traffic study done for free, documenting either the need for a signal or a need for a part time crossing guard done, or no need at all, that's service and as others have noted there is opportunity for leadership here."

 

 

I think this is the crux of it. Traffic studies are typically designed by professionals with specific training in doing these types of studies. I'm not sure that a high school kid is going to be in a position to really do this well unless he has an awful lot of input from the local planning department. My concern wouldn't be that a light might not be put in place as a direct result of his study (a successful study could still show that no light is needed, for instance) but rather, that his efforts would be fruitless in that the local government may have no interest in even considering the issue at this point in time. In this regard, doing a traffic study would be about as useful as being the local chair of the "Gore for President '08" campaign - doesn't matter how good or how bad a job you do because you're playing fantasy land.

 

Some of this is really un-knowable for us here on the web. We don't know the community, the flow of traffic, the level of interest or concern about safety at the intersection in question, or what else, if anything, has already been done to deal with traffic abatement. We also don't know what the local DOT has planned for the next couple of construction seasons. We don't know if there's a traffic study already in the plans and they need free labor to make it actually happen. And we don't know which local groups, if any, are pushing for the installation of this light. I've seen communities where the desire for a traffic light at intersection XY is really all about which members of the local board, or county highway commission, or what have you, a taxpayer or citizens advocacy group supports. It may, or may not, have much to do with traffic patterns! Is the scout being used in this way? Can't tell from here.

 

Without knowing all that stuff it is really impossible to make the call over the internet. But I'd sure want a lot more info from the scout, and evidence that he has the backing of whoever usually commissions such studies in his neck of the woods, both to do the study at all and to ensure it is properly designed, before I'd be comfortable giving him the go-ahead on this as an Eagle project.

[scoutingagain]

I agree with you Lisa. My point about the value of the study was more to support the conceptof the idea a study itself was of value, not necessarily this specific project, although I think it might. But as you say, we lack many of the specifics in this instance to know one way or the other.

SA

[Beavah]

Yah, it sure seems like if da community agency signs off on the project, that covers whether they think it's worthwhile, eh? No need for Scouters to get involved in that judgment.

 

As for the other issues, seems like that's what the approval process is for, eh? Just like for a traditional project, there's things for adults to consider, especially safety but also other issues.

 

Still seems like a lad should be encouraged to pursue somethin' of interest to him, and we should be helpin' not throwin' up roadblocks and objections. Youth leadership and all that, eh?

 

Beavah