When exactly is a Merit Badge considered "earned"?

[Gold Winger]

"When is a Merit Badge considered earned, when the MBC signs the card or when the SM signs off?"

 

Is has to be when the counselor signs off. For one thing that's the date that I put on the records :-). The other is that's the date that would be considered when it comes time for Eagle. If a Scout finishes his last merit badge on the day before his 18th birthday but doesn't give it to the SM until the next day, it counts. QED

 

There, the original question has been answered and we can get on with the discussion.

[Beavah]

Fun post, LH. I figure yeh could probably use any of the Merlyn threads to really get at the communications thing, eh?

 

The one thing I'd add is "How to listen/read to hear the real question(s)".

 

Aquila wrote a 5 paragraph "question." Only one of the lines was "Is the badge EARNED when the MBC is satisfied it's earned, and has signed off on it? Or is it EARNED when the SM signs off on it?"

 

To answer a question well, yeh have to put it in context.

 

If Mrs. Beavah says "Does this dress make me look fat?" I sure as heck better put that question in a bigger context rather than answerin' it at the surface level, eh!

 

Aquila's 5-paragraph question also included implied questions like "Can I counsel my own son one-on-one?" "Can/should the troop double-check to make sure I did a good job?" "Is eight or nine badges counseled for my own kid (or any one kid) too many?" "What's the best way for me to raise these questions/concerns with the SM and his wife the Advancement Chair?"

 

To answer a question or set of questions well, yeh often have to put da answer in context too, eh? Give some background to help the listener understand the answer or the viewpoint.

 

Great topics for Communication MB, even if not part of da formal requirements!

 

Beavah

 

[Gold Winger]

" At a district/council level, where we have to serve multiple units, it ain't kosher to force such a requirement addition on every other troop."

 

So far as I know, no one in the district has filed an appeal because of incomplete records.

 

I'm really surprised that anyone would accept anything from BSA when it comes to records. I've never seen a correct roster come from council. I tried for three years to get a name correction for a scout before it took.

 

One of the units that I commish have paperwork from council that claims that the had over 100 boys last year. They swear that they've never had more than 50.

 

So let's look at your trust in BSA. "Tell me Life Scout Smith, council says that you completed the Swimming Merit Badge but you don't have the card." "Uh-huh." "Did you ask your advancement guy for a copy?" "Yeah but he says that he doesn't have any records." "No records" "Nope. He thought that he might have misplaced the advancement sheet so he drove 40 miles to council offices and went through their paperwork. No joy." Hmmmm . . . what to do? We know that council NEVER makes a mistake. Maybe if we went back and asked the previous advancement guy, he'd remember that John Smith had taken swimming and then left the troop four years ago. Who's the scout in front of the Board? Jon Smith.

 

But I see your point. Let's only worry about the rules when it might add to the "burden" on the Scout. Let's not worry about those silly rules in G2SS because, after all, this is just a kid's group and supposed to be fun. Right?

[LongHaul]

Being a married man for 31 years and having a wife that never had a runway model profile I TOTALLY understand your position Beav. I also agree that asking the question you want the answer to is sometimes negated by the fact that you asked too many questions at one time. Answering the first question of when is a badge considered earned after putting it into the context of "How do I approach the SM and his AC wife" is not always the best thing to do. The answer to the first question should not change with situation or unit.

Gold Winger are you now saying that you misspoke in your second post in this thread? Or do you wish to amend your post to read "...it counts. QED as long as" ? Question still stands unanswered until we define earned for the purpose of the question. LH(This message has been edited by LongHaul)

[Gold Winger]

No, I'm not. The date of the merit badge is when the counselor signs the card.

 

Look at it like this, you're married when the preacher signs the marriage license not when the preacher mails a copy the courthous unless it is discovered that you're already married or, in some states, you lied on the marriage license.

 

So the date of the merit badge is the date the card was signed unless there is evidence of misfeasance, malfeasance, or nonfeasance.

[LongHaul]

OK Gold Winger I'll play for a while. I won't go into the date of the merit badge not being what the original question was asking. Let's just try and sift through your choice of words a bit.

>>No, I'm not. The date of the merit badge is when the counselor signs the card.

(portion omitted)

So the date of the merit badge is the date the card was signed unless there is evidence of misfeasance, malfeasance, or nonfeasance.

And then the date is?

LH(This message has been edited by LongHaul)

[Gold Winger]

There is no date because there is no merit badge just like there'd be no date for your marriage if you were married illegally.

[Gold Winger]

" I won't go into thge date of the merit badge not being what the original question was asking."

 

The original question was "when was it earned." The date of the merit badge is the date that the badge was earned. I had hoped that you could have made that leap without assistance.

 

[LongHaul]

Talk to someone serving time for bigamy, there is date for the illegal marriage that's what bigamy is all about. The date the MBC signed the card is the date no matter what anyone says. Whether the document is held to be valid or not has no affect on the date on which it was signed. If you are saying the badge was earned at the moment the MBC signed the card that is one thing. If you say the badge was earned when the SM approved the document that is another thing. If you want to say that the badge was earned when someone keyed the information into the Scout Net data base that is again another thing. Trying to mix and match terminology doesn't work if the objective is to answer the initial question. When is the badge considered earned?

LH

[John-in-KC]

LH,

 

Even if GW wull not, I will play, because I think we can get a good summary from this:

 

If you are saying the badge was earned at the moment the MBC signed the card that is one thing.

Based on my understanding of ACP&P, this indeed is the moment the Scout earns the MB.

 

If you say the badge was earned when the SM approved the document that is another thing.

The Scoutmaster has his vote is on the front end, to 1) Assign an MB Counselor, 2) accept the Counselors at the Scout Camp, or 3) accept the MB counselor in any sort of group "forum/university/college" setting. He does not have to sign the card, he can state that Scout ABC is not ready to undertake the MB at that forum. His responsibility on the back end is to keep the approved MB app moving to data reduction and data entry into BSA ScoutNet. He does this together with the Troop Committee advancement person.

 

If you want to say that the badge was earned when someone keyed the information into the Scout Net data base that is again another thing.

"You do not exist, Winston, you never existed."-O'Brien, speaking in Orwell, 1984. "The job is not done until the paperwork is complete."

FINAL ENTRY OF THE DATA TO THE BSA SCOUTNET DATABASE IS NOT THE SCOUT'S RESPONSIBILITY, this is the Committee's responsibility. The data must make it to ScoutNet, or BSA and the local Council will not affirm the advancement. This is our responsibility as Scouters... otherwise we are failing the Scouts we serve.

 

Trying to mix and match terminology doesn't work if the objective is to answer the initial question. When is the badge considered earned?

LH, have I answered for you what I believe ACP&P BSA #33088 says?

 

YIS John

 

(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[LongHaul]

Ok John-in KC your on

Accepting what you posted, a scout comes to you with 6 signed merit badge cards which you have never seen before. Do you forward these? If not what is your justification for witholdiing creditation for work certified as complete?

LH

[Gold Winger]

" there is date for the illegal marriage that's what bigamy is all about."

 

It's not really a marriage because the second wife is cut out of the loop for Social Security, inheritance, health insurance. So it is one of those strange things "you're not really married but we'll punish you for it anyway." I'd think that having two wives is punishment enough.

[LongHaul]

I understand the game just fine, you want to post opinion and half truth and have it accepted as fact. After a while people get tired of responding, you get the last word and feel like you have won. I understand the game just fine.

 

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This

bigamy ˈbɪg ə mi - Show Spelled Pronunciation[big-uh-mee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

noun, plural -mies.

1. Law. the crime of marrying while one has a wife or husband still living, from whom no valid divorce has been effected.

 

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This

bigamy (bĭg'ə-mē) Pronunciation Key

n. The criminal offense of marrying one person while still legally married to another.

 

 

WordNet - Cite This Source - Share This

bigamy

 

noun

1. having two spouses at the same time

2. the offense of marrying someone while you have a living spouse from whom no valid divorce has occurred

 

Kernerman English Multilingual Dictionary (Beta Version) - Cite This Source - Share This

bigamy [ˈbigəmi] noun

marriage to two wives or two husbands at once (a crime in some countries)

 

 

 

[ASM857]

Longhaul

 

If you as the Scoutmaster have issued 6 merit Badge cards to this Scout, and they are signed by a MB Counsler. Then you knew he was working on these badges and should accept as complete. I personally would not be a counsler for my son unless it was in a group class, but thats me.

 

YIS

Doug Buth

[LongHaul]

ASM857, I accept what you have posted and agree however if your post was intended to respond to the question I asked John-in-KC please note that I said 6 merit badge cards which you had never seen before.

LH