Problem with scouts not awarded merit badges

[FoxPatrol]

OK folks I'd like a little input on this one. We just joined a new troop this past summer and my son went to summer camp and completed/earned a couple of merit badges,so he thought. We were given a merit badge completion sheet indicating my son fulfilled all the requirements.

Well we just had a court of honor and assumed my son would be awarded his badges. Turns out he was not awarded them because the Troop does not recognize any completions from any counselors outside the Troop because they DO NOT trust anyone other than their own counselors. This goes for all BSA Summer camps ,Merit badge universities or any other counselor outside the troop. Whatever merit badge the scout works on at either camp or merit badge university they are required to prove to the troops own counselors that they completed the requirements.

This seems very unfair to the Scout as it teaches them that they are not to be trusted and it is also arrogant of the Troop.

 

Because of this policy a lot of boys don't attempt to earn merit badges.

 

FYI at the last COH out of 25 scouts 3 merits badges were awarded.

 

What is the best way of handling this problem? This policy was mentioned at the COH with the unit commissioner present.

 

B.M

[evmori]

The best way of handling this would be switch Troops! Dumb policy! Sounds like there ore other issues that will crop up!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[scoutldr]

How can I put this kindly? Oh, never mind...what a bunch of arrogant morons! If this is the troop policy, then WHY did the SM allow the boys to waste a whole week at camp, with his implicit approval?

 

I would call your District Advancement Chair and file a formal appeal, in writing.

[jr56]

By all means, file a formal appeal to the District Advancement Chairman, continue it up the chain (Council, Region, National) if necessary.

However, as previously stated, it this troop is this so far out of line with advancement policies, who knows what else they may be inventing on their own. You may want to switch troops. Get a copy of the completion sheet, I'm sure you will find a troop that will be glad to do things right and accept the merit badges as having been earned.

[CalicoPenn]

Talk to the Unit Commissioner who was present when this policy was announced - if s/he doesn't tell you that s/he and/or the District Commissioner and/or the District Advancement Chairman will attend the next Troop Committee Meeting to tell the Troop in no uncertain terms that the Troop WILL follow National Policy and WILL award Merit Badges earned outside the Troop Merit Badge Counselor List with NO retesting and that s/he expects the Troop to award - immediately, all of the Merit Badges earned at Summer Camp then call the District Commissioner as well - this Unit Commissioner needs to be retrained/replaced. The Commissioners are not just window dressing - they are there not just to help Units through various troubles they get themselves into, but to ensure that the Units are following the franchise rules.

 

Calico

 

(btw: Welcome to the Forum)

 

Your son earned those Merit Badges - the Troop cannot deny them to him. Attend the next Committee Meeting and

 

[John-in-KC]

What a mess.

 

1) I do not know your position in the unit, and whether or not you are a registered Scouter. That said, the UC is a "friend" of the unit, he cannot mandate compliance with BSA policy.

 

2) What the UC can do is contact the District Advancement Chair and the DE. That august trio can then approach the Chartered Organization Representative. BSA operates on a licensing (charter) system, the Chartered Organization has the right to over-ride any PLC, SM, or Committee decision. That is a power to be wielded with great care!!!

 

3) You may need to be prepared to step up to the plate in unit leadership. Such incidents may cause people to leave units, both existing leadership and parents alike. If you stay, and the leadership goes, you may need to become part of those who want to make a difference.

 

4) All that said, if the Scoutmaster did not sign the merit badge form of the Scout before he started the work, if he said the MB counselors are not acceptable, he may be within his proper lane as the program officer. Advancement policy requires the SM to approve of the selection of the MBC, and to give his permission to start MB work.

 

5) Rejecting MB mills is usually done by the Troop simply saying "we will not attend," and just closing the door. What did the Troop expect the youth to do at this camp? Most Boy Scout camps these days are structured as MB schools from my experience. That's a lot of daylight hours to fill if the youth weren't doing MB work.

 

6) I would take a hard look at how this Troop does its business, how it applies the 8 methods, before I invested much more of my sons time in it.

[eolesen]

Advancement policy requires the SM to approve of the selection of the MBC, and to give his permission to start MB work.

 

Are you certain about that? The signature by the SM is permission to start work, and he's to give the name of a registered MBC, but I don't know anywhere where it is stated that the SM has to approve the selection of the MBC.

 

How many trained leaders are in this unit?...

[Beavah]

Yah, so, here's another good opportunity to show everyone how to behave like good-natured adults supporting a kids' program. A wonderful chance to be an example to all da Little League Dads and Helicopter Moms.

 

Yeh could go stomp and fume and complain to da unit commissioner and file appeals and tell the folks who are givin' the most time to the troop that they're arrogant and stupid and you as a new person know better. If yeh file an appeal, yeh might win... and then what? Your kid will have a couple of patches that his peers figure are "fake" and will have burned his bridges with his troop.

 

Or you could say "when I joined this program, I bought in as a supporter, and da SM is da referee. I want my kid and other parents to see that I support the referee, even when I disagree with the call." And then help your son to finish up those Merit Badges in a way that's acceptable to the troop. It'll probably only take another meeting or two, and your son may very well get a lot more out of it than sittin' through a class with 15 other boys at camp. And sometime along the way, after you've simmered down, yeh can buy da SM a coffee and have him tell you why they're doin' it that way. And if you're respectful, maybe he'll also listen to your thoughts about how it can be perceived by a new parent. Everyone leaves happier and wiser.

 

Your call, eh? What example do you want to be to others?

 

Beavah

 

[CalicoPenn]

Beavah,

 

Am I to understand that you are advocating that this Scout should just accept that all the work on the merit badges he earned at summer camp was for naught and that he should just give up the badges he earned and start all over again because his unit is failing to follow National Advancement Policy on earning Merit Badges; and this Scout should limit himself only to Merit Badges that are counseled by Troop level volunteers and not Merit Badges that may interest him which may not have someone in the Troop signed up to, let alone qualified to counsel? Am I to understand that your position is that Troops can now make up their own advancement rules and too bad, so sad, so sorry you followed the BSA advancement rules and not the Troops so you don't get the badge? I sure hope I'm misinterpreting what you've posted because otherwise I'd have to violently disagree with you, and I'd really hate to have to do so.

 

This Scout has earned these badges - it is the Troop that is at fault here. Maybe the best thing is for this Scout and his family to find a new unit that will follow the policy and make sure his advancement needs are met (3 merit badges earned by a total of 25 Scouts since the last Court of Honor???). Of course, that takes care of this Scout's issues. In the meantime there are 24 more Scouts who are not benefitting from the program, and who may grow up believing that the way their unit awards Merit Badges is the way it's supposed to be giving them the potential to spread this virus to other units in the future if they become adult leaders (which, frankly, seems very unlikely given that they certainly don't seem very motivated to advance as it is).

 

I'm all for the whole let's get along and support the program - as long as we keep in mind THE PROGRAM that we are supposed to be supporting. This unit isn't following the program. Instead it's following it's own program. What program should this Parent then be supporting - the real program or this deviation of the program.

 

I'm also all for calling ignorant adults on the mess they are making of things when it starts to impact the Scouts and their advancement.

 

Calico

[Beavah]

Am I to understand that you are advocating that this Scout should just accept that all the work on the merit badges he earned at summer camp was for naught .

 

No learning is for naught. No time spent out in the outdoors having fun (da MB's were fun right, not just boring school classes?) is for naught. Is the badge important? Or is it da knowledge that's important? Which do we want to teach kids to value most?

 

because his unit is failing to follow National Advancement Policy on earning Merit Badges

 

We've got no information that's da case, eh? Or any of the other accusations yeh make about a group of fellow scouters who we've never met. Do we believe scouters are good people who care about kids, or do we believe they're all wicked sorts, so it's safe to assume a scouter we haven't met is out to hurt kids?

 

Do we even know if da camp is actually following the BSA's guidelines? There's plenty that don't.

 

And let's say when all is said and done we still believe da SM in this unit blew the call. Then we're left with "What's the appropriate, courteous, best action for a parent to take when he/she disagrees with the call made by a spouse, teacher, coach, referee, or SM?"

 

I submit to you that the best action to take, the best lesson to teach their child, is to support the other caring adult in the boy's life even when they're wrong.

 

Cloth patches for skill recognition are really a very small thing when all is said and done. Are they really worth setting the caring people in a boy's life against each other? Is that really the best lesson? I say no.

 

Unless we're willing to go off and take over every troop where there's a complaint, we have to accept that there will be troops of different quality and troops that just do things differently. I guarantee that if I visited the troop of anyone who posts here, I could immediately identify several ways in which they were doing things contrary to what is written in some manual somewhere.

 

Is it OK if I tell one of your new parents that because you do XXX you must be ignorant and they should pitch a fit at your next committee meeting or with your DE?

 

We should all do unto our fellow Scouters as we would expect them to do for us.

 

And we should help new parents learn to support coaches, referees, teachers, and scoutmasters, because that's good parenting and what's best for their kids.

 

Beavah

 

[FScouter]

"Am I to understand that you are advocating that this Scout should just accept that all the work on the merit badges he earned at summer camp was for naught... "

Hey, whatever it takes to show "respect" for the leaders that took a lot of time out of their personal lives to run a sorta Scout program without a whole lot of regard to supporting the Scouting program they promised to uphold. Just because a guy volunteered doesn't mean he should be supported. Support Scouting, not the individual wearing a Scout shirt and holding his custom policy book.

[anarchist]

Ah, it's fall and the "everyones a twit" birds are out again...

 

so let me get this straight...troop doesn't trust merit badge mills??? wants to make sure boys actually qualified and were not simply "signed off" for having a pulse and finding the merit badge class??? gosh, sign me up!

 

Of course the tried and true "its the book and the book is law" types..reguardless of the real "on the ground" will brand the troop and SM a rogue organization, but that just makes me want to love the guys even more! Guess Fscouter still believes that no scout program is better than one that has its own quirks...sorry, but I think I would rather have a son in this troop than FScouters...

 

And the "newbie" (sorry Foxpatrol- I mean it in a friendly way)is told run away, find another troop...bad, bad scout master! Well I guess that just depends on what you want for your son, now doesn't it? I did not read that this troop wanted extra work...just that they wanted "proof" the work had merit...wow what a concept?!?!

 

Most, (dare I say all?) substantive merit badges "taught" (given away?) at summercamps are IMHO -worth less than "road apples"...Our troop has been in and out of council camps and camps in all surrounding states over the last 12 years and while some are better than others the quality of the "learning that goes on" (not judging the teaching here)is dismal. As a MB councelor for canoeing, camping, cooking, horsemanship, fishing, flyfishing and First Aid I have found very few merit badge awards valid...Valid, that is if you expect the boys to know or remember anything they were "taught". FoxPatrol, you pick the subject...time and time again when I am working with Scouts who have gotten "that" MB at Summercamp or some other "mill" they are almost uniformly clueless...I get "I don't remember" so much it is very disheartening...Face it (or can anyone here be truely honest?) with 20-25 scouts in the room or on the water front how many boys actually do the work or answer the questions?

 

In a traditional "1 or 2 scouts and the councelor" situation the scouts are actually responcible for their own work and progress...and some measurable amount of "it" does "stick" inside their noodle!

 

So FoxPatrol, It may just boil down to whether or not you want your son given awards he really did not earn (learn?). Or would you rather know that when his troop hands out rank and merit badges that they have quality over quantity in mind?

 

Frankly, I would rather that our boys select a summer program that was fun over the "merit badge mills"...cause I would rather see them "chase" merit badges where I knew they would be challenged and not just given a piece of paper for being alive and present...

 

But hey, you might one of those parents just interested in getting your son his Eagle for his college resume just as fast as possible, without worrying about "work done well"...But, then, I guess, that kind of "judgement" on my part, like the others in this thread would not be Friendly or Kind...now would it ;>)

 

For what it is worth, when joining a troop you should ask questions, read literature talk to the leaders and senior scouts about what the goals and philosophy are like and after choosing watch and listen a while before judging others. It is amazing how "reasonable" some of these troops seem ...after you know what they are about...

Anarchist

 

[OldGreyEagle]

I have a couple a questions, for either Fox Patrol or any one else who feels so motivated. You said your son went to Summer Camp and worked on merit badges, and then you found out that "Troop Policy" is such and such. Was this policy mentioned before the Troop went to summer camp? I understand if the Camp has a lousy merit badge program why a unit would want to do this (hold on, more on this later), but I do think it would be a good idea if the unit also made sure every scout and parent/guardian knew the "rules".

 

Now, I could see asking either the Scoutmaster or COmmittee chair why this policy exists and how was this information communicated to the scouts and parents, because obviously you missed it. It may also be a good time to find out if there are other little unique things about the troop you dont know. You may want to find out how the in Troop counselors check out what the scout knows. It may be done quickly, or it may amount to a redo, at this point we/you dont know.

 

I would also ask if the summer camp has such a lousy merit badge program, why the troop went there? And if the explanation is because of past history, I would also inquire as to what has been done in the past by the troop to address the situation. If the troop has made its concerns over the teaching effectiveness of the merit badge program to the Camp Management and Council. Then again since this is troop policy, what is its history, it has to be a good story

 

It may do us all well to view the program from the youth viewpoint. That which we consider a few bits of cloth may be a very important part of the youth's life. The thought of having that bit of cloth may be very motivating to the scout, and then being told after the fact, sorry we wont give it to you is, well not nice, just reinforces the adult-youth model, I am bigger, stronger, more powerful than you are.

 

I beleive what the Troop did was wrong, but since this is so "wrong" it deserves an explanation in a polite atmosphere and then based on the answers you will have decisions and choices to make. One thing for sure, dont be surprised if you are asked to be an adult leader, you may want to volunteer in the opening of the covnersation or have you reasons why you can't well thought out and ready

[Hunt]

I think there is some problem here with who said what when. If it is the case that a boy went to summer camp with his troop, and was allowed or encouraged to pursue merit badges, and was allowed to believe he had earned merit badges, only to learn (for the first time) at the COH that he hadn't earned them, that is a real problem. This really should have been explained. If this failure of communication happened, I think I would have to blame the troop leaders for it; while one should ask lots of questions when joining a new troop, it certainly wouldn't occur to me to ask whether MBs earned at camp would be recognized.

Also, to me a lot depends on what the troop counselors require to "prove" that the work has been done. If it's a matter of sitting down with the counselor to go through the requirements and simply explain how they were done at camp, that would be different, in my mind, from actually making them redo all the work. Bad experiences with camp MBs could lead to a level of quality control--but if actual work is being rejected because boys have no proof other than their word and the approval of the camp counselor, that is too much control.

[OldGreyEagle]

And at this point, I think it incumbent to reiterate that while merit badges may be taught in a group, testing or "sign off" of requirements is to be done individually