Forgotten 1st Class Requirment

[mk9750]

I have a bit of a different take.

 

In previous instances, when the BSA changed the requirments for certain ranks (Eagle now requiring Personal fitness is on that comes to mind), they provided a caveat that anyone already working on the advancement could use the old or the new requirements, but not a combination of both. Usually, there was a time frame involved, but the Scout had the choice.

 

If a boy bought a then - current book without the requirement, and then started to work on 1st Class immediately, he should be able to do so under the old requirments. The first campout or other Troop or Patrol event that he attends begins his work toward 1st Class - The requirment asking him to participate in 10 Troop or Patrol events.

 

We came to this solution because we had boys who joined at the same time but, but some received their handbooks from their Pack, purchased months before they crossed, while others bought their books immediately after joining or crossing. Usually I am the S.O.B. when it comes to asking kids to meet the requirements. But this one was just too obvious for me to make an issue of. We have been ignoring the requirement for anyone who has the old book, and any boy who joined or crossed at roughly the same time. We have one boy who joined later and has made 1st Class with the new book, and he was required to fulfill the requirment.

 

Editorial comment - It really is a dumb requirment, but it is a requirment.

 

Mark

[PeteM]

Editorial comment - It really is a dumb requirment, but it is a requirment.

 

Mark

 

How about a requirment that has the scouts bring coffee for their leaders? That makes as much sense as the new requirment # 11

[evmori]

At best, it's a rubber stamp requirement!

[mk9750]

Yes, it would be a dumb requirment also, but I would require it if National wrote it. It doesn't say "Mark's Scouting Program" on any of the literature.

 

While typing this, I came to realize something. One could make the arguement (weak, admittedly, but realistic) that there is value in a requirement for a Scout to bring the Scoutmaster coffee. It demonstrates an attitude of service. It demonstrates courteousness and helpfulness. And it might also lead to a Scout learning how to make coffee.

 

I remember OGE or EagleDad stating a long time back that the adults in their Troop challenge the Troop to defend questionable activites based on the Scout Oath, Law, Aims and Methods, and that the boys had the right to challenge the adult leaders in the same manner (this was a couple of years back, so if I have the wrong author, or am misrepresenting the idea, I truly apoligize). It seems to me, that even if it were weak, this could be defended.

 

Look - Please understand that I am not in any way supporting the requirment to try to recriut another boy. I think the requirement was added to by National to be self serving, and I really don't see much in the way of helping a Scout, who is trying to advance, meet the Aims of Scouting. But it isn't illegal, immoral, and I don't have the right to change the requirments, so I'm going to do my job and require it of the boys I serve.

 

Mark

[ASM59]

I almost hate to point this technicality out after saying that I thought this requirement is silly at best but:

 

Per BSA National:

 

Beginning January 1, 2006, an additional requirement will be added to the requirements for First Class rank in Boy Scouting. Scouts beginning their First Class requirement work after this date must complete the new requirement. Scouts working on First Class requirements prior to this date will have until June 30, 2006 to complete First Class rank without completing the new requirement.

 

When asked to clarify this, the National BSA Office responded:

A boy who is working on Tenderfoot, Second Class and First Class (under the First Class Within a Year) is working on First Class. He had until the June deadline to complete First Class or would have to complete under the new requirement.

 

So, the bottom line is that if we are following the guidelines, any Scout starting his requirements on or after January 1, 2006 or completing his First Class after June 30, 2006 should have completed the new requirement (new #11). Apparently this is regardless of what version book the Scout Shop sold to the Scout or how long ago the Scout purchased the book.

 

ASM59

[John-in-KC]

ASM 59:

 

I agree with you, but BSA Supply Corporation can and should have printed errata stickers for the unsold copies in all the Scout Shops and Distributors out there.

 

It's another wonderful example of the world class service we get from Supply Corporation ... the folks who have us in the de la Renta Parlour Scouts uniform for 20 years now.

[GernBlansten]

Perhaps national can just issue rubber stamps for us volunteers so we can add and approve the requirement in one easy step to all the books they are selling.

[ASM59]

John...

 

Yes, you are correct. It would have been a very inexpensive solution for BSA Suppy to have provide the stickers, not to mention putting forth some "good faith" to help the volunteers in the trenches and avoid mistakes such as Pete's...

 

ASM59

[BrentAllen]

Or you could just pick up a copy of the Boy Scout Requirements 2007 (or 2008 for next year). Are you not using these booklets? They list the "official" requirements each year.

 

As it states in the front cover,

"The requirements for merit badges, ranks and Eagle Palms are effective January 1, 2007. These requirements are effective throught December, 2007.

The requirements listed in this book might not match those in the merit badge pamphlets because the pamphlets may not have been recently revised. The requirements in this book are the official requirements of the Boy Scouts of America."

 

And, yes, it does list requirement #11.

[GernBlansten]

Brent,

How do you feel about the council scout shop selling outdated books to scouts a year and a half after changing the requirements? Should scouts also get the Official BSA requirements each year so they can update their already out of date books?

[BrentAllen]

Gern,

I was trained to use the current Requirements book as the authoritative source for both rank and merit badge requirements. Does every boy need a copy? Probably not. If the ASM for a patrol and the PL have copies, then every boy in the patrol should be able to get the information they need. How about a copy or two in the Troop library?

 

I can see where the Scout Shop needs to move the books. A Scout is thrifty. Instead of trashing them, use them with the Requirements book. You'll have to do that in another year, anyway. Things are always changing. Is every boy in your unit going to buy a new Handbook everytime a requirement changes, and then get all the signatures moved to the new book? I hope not. The Requirements book is about half the cost of the Handbook. Find a way to use it in conjunction with the new or old Handbooks.

[GernBlansten]

I can one up you Brent. How about national not adding meaningless requirements which cause problems like these.

BTW, I was trained that the scout handbook is the authoritative source. That's the one the scout is using.

[John-in-KC]

It doesn't matter which book the requirement is in. It doesn't matter what we think of the requirement. The requirement is there. We neither add to, nor take from, the requirements.

 

So... we stop whining, and start training our youth so they can get the requirement done.

 

If you think of it as a tool to help our youth communicate with their peers, it makes a tad of sense. Considering how much time our youth spend on Nintendo, X-Box, myspace and facebook, a bit of mandated oral communication isn't the end of the world!

 

As to BSA Supply Division... well, I've already registered my thoughts on it above.

[BrentAllen]

Gern,

Sorry to hear they didn't include that information in your training. I personally don't see it as a stupid requirement. The only way to keep any organization going is to bring in new blood. I think we need to teach that lesson to the boys, as well as how to build a fire.

The Boy Scout Requirements book is mentioned in the training materials. See Scoutmaster's Handbook, pages 124 (in the box), 127, and 128.

[FScouter]

How do you feel about the council scout shop selling outdated books to scouts a year and a half after changing the requirements? Should scouts also get the Official BSA requirements each year so they can update their already out of date books?

 

Really now, such an attitude. Pay the $2 (or maybe its 2.50 now?) once a year in January. Is that such an exorbitant expense to keep a troop current? Or download it for free at the BSA web site

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/32215/index.html

and print it on your own paper using your own ink, whatever is more thrifty.

 

How about national not adding meaningless requirements which cause problems like these.

 

Yeah, such a problem. Its stupid and meaningless. Or not. Is bringing new boys to Scouting such a dumb idea? Its been scientifically proven a thousand times over that the most effective and efficient way to bring boys to Scouting is for a Scout to bring in a friend.