SuzyBullett Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 My family and another family are in the processes of starting a new boy scout troop. We left the other local troop under less than favorable circumstances. The council even was stunned at the series of events that transpired and agreed what they did was not ok but cannot change the past. But regardless, we are embarking on a journey to make a troop that does behave in a scout like manner. However, I am just feeling like our district and CEO are less than helpful. We have a committee of 5, we have 2 boys, a scoutmaster and an ASM, and a charter group and charter rep. The problem lies in the 2 boys. We were told in May, that we could register our SM and ASM and go to camp. Well now 3 weeks before camp we learn we no we can't register the SM or ASM until we have the 5 boys. My son and his friend are missing boy scouts. We want to get this to work but am so tired of the hoops that are thrown up at the last moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosetracker Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Is the count of 5 in order to get the SM & ASM to camp with no charge, or are the adults paying to go to camp also.. If the 5 pay into the adults food at least, I can see a consern of the camps.. A few suggestions.. 1) see if you can offer to pay food cost for the adults, or help for the week on camp staff to pay their way.. 2) look into a camp outside the council. they may have different rules, and it is great for a small troop to not get bound to one camp every year.. 3) Most camps have provisional camping. The scouts go as individuals, they camp with other individual scouts from other troops, who make up a patrol for the week.. Again if your camp doesn't offer provisional outside neighboring councils probably will.. Also offer for the SM & ASM to help with provisional camp for the week.. Means they need to oversee ALL the boys in the provisional camp, not just there two.. But sometimes camps welcome this. Seems odd so many adult leaders in your troop and only 2 scouts.. You have more leaders then parents for the 2 boys! The 2 scouts may be an issue when recharter comes around, those also require a certain number of boys.. Besides, you really can not get even a single patrol out of 2 scouts, and your program will suffer for it. Especially with all those well intentioned adults smothering them... Hope you have some great recruitment ideas. I hope you really did have issues, and it was not just that you were new parents who did not take time to understand the program.. You aren't in cub scouts any more, and things are way different in boy scouts.. It's like throw everything you learned in cub scouts out the window.(This message has been edited by moosetracker) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuzyBullett Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 Yes there were real issues. I am working hard at moving on from it, so I am not going to go into it as it just makes the anger and pain fresh again. Someday I will share but airing dirty laundry does not help anything. 5 boys to start a troop is what BSA requires. We can't be a troop until we have the 5 boys, we can't submit paperwork for a tour plan until we have 5 boys so we can't go to camp. We had already arranged to pair up with a local troop to get our 2 deep leadership. Only the SM is available to go to camp the week we selected. The ASM is in Africa for that week. Only now did district tell us that oh you need the 5 boys first. All along since May we were told no problem, just get your 2 deep leadership, pay your money. Provisional camping would have met our needs nicely I think but that wasn't offered as an option to us when we started this process. I will call some other councils locally to see if they offer provisional camping. The reason we have so many leaders is 2 parents for each of the boys and the former treasurer of the pack number we are reactivating. We do not want to run a troop with just the 2 boys, it has been hard to recruit during summer. There is a pack that has a good sized weblo den that many of the boys will cross over to the new troop. But that doesnt happen until Feb/March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattlePioneer Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Find a couple of relatives or family friends and ask them to sign applications to join your troop for Scout aged boys. They can reside pretty much anywhere. The BSA membership fee through the end of 2012 would be $7.50 each. Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosetracker Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I can respect that. My son went to about 4 surrounding council camps through provisional camping. One week with his troop, which was in a rut of going to the council camp, one week going to different camps, meeting different people, and enjoying different programs.. We never met a camp without a provisional group.. My son met some boys who parents were sending their boys away to camp for a month through provisional camps.. Not something I would recommend.. Sort of hit me of parents "ditching" the kids, and boys should do some of their merit badges the normal way and not all through camp programs or merit badge workshops.. There is alot missing in them even if done well.. Or at least there is some different forms of skills learned by doing Merit badges the old fashioned way, that are just not skills you can learn when done in a group program of the merit badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosetracker Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 SP !!!! Shame on you.. Promoting paper scouts and conning the system !.. How very non-Scoutlike.. Some Councils do the same, but that is their shame.. I have never seen any of us advising that other scouters follow that path.. We are suppose to be the good guys, and be excellent role models for the youth that we serve.. Just make sure that the boys are registered Boy Scouts, even if your troop is not a valid troop. They do need to be registered scouts to go to summer camp, and earn any advancements.. If the were registered with the old troop, before they left it, and you haven't gone through a rechartering since then, they should still be registered with them until recharter time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuzyBullett Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 Moose Tracker I just found another council that does have a provisional camp. Now to see if they have space. I am amazed the district did not suggest this as an option to us. I wonder if they even knew about it. Thank you so much for the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortridge Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Provo camp is definitely an option, but don't count on your adults getting to go for free. Most camps have their Provo leadership already selected. Part of your problem undoubtedly arises from the stovepipe systems in a council. District officials don't speak for camp directors, and vice versa. Three weeks before summer camp is generally far too late to be adding a new unit to the camp roster, unless it's a week with lots of openings. That's fairly rare in my experience. Setting up a new campsite for a "troop" of four people may be seen as a waste of time for the camp, no offense. I'm very surprised they didn't suggest partnering you with a larger troop in camp that week. Agree with others that recruiting must be your focus. Two families does not make a troop. Doesn't even make a patrol. You're going to die before you're born unless you get boys involved really quickly. Set up some campouts and hikes in August and get some of your sons' friends involved stat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callooh! Callay!1428010939 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 "...can't register the SM or ASM until we have the 5 boys." Can't register for camp because your group is too small? Or can't register for camp because your adult leaders are not registered Scouters? If it's the latter, are your boys still registered scouts, since they do not currently belong to a chartered troop? Probably a dumb question here, since you've probably already considered it... but what about joining another troop in the area? Another option may be BSA's Lone Scout program: http://www.scouting.org/About/FactSheets/LoneScout.aspx It's not inconsistent with eventually forming a troop. The Lone Scout Friend and Counselor Guidebook http://www.directservicebsa.org/pdf/14-420.pdf has a section on Organizing a Pack or Troop which notes that "often a Lone Scout and his counselor lead to the formation of a new Cub Scout pack or Boy Scout troop." Some Helicopter-Scouters will likely have a low opinion of the Lone Scout option - and mention of it may prompt some to weigh in on why that is. There's a thread on the program here: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=339728&p=1 Don't take everything in that thread as gospel - some of it is at odds with what BSA has published. Also some of the objections look a bit like Helicopter-Scouter bitterness against a parent who didn't conform to the Helicopter-Scouter's way. But some objections do seem like legitimate concerns that one should think about how to handle before embarking on such a program - for example finding POR in which to serve may be easier in a troop than without one. \ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosetracker Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I would check boys registration, but if boys leave your troop and do not do the paperwork to join a new troop, then they stay registered to their old troop until the next re-charter date, when they are pulled off the roster.. No one can unregister a scout mid-charter period, unless he does something so bad the council throws him out of scouts.. Your scout has paid a full year registration fee, they don't give refunds, so can not unregister them.. Lone Scouts have to meet criteria.. You need to either be home schooled (that's the one most of us disagree with as these kids should be finding ways outside of school to socialize with kids their own age.), or traveling so much you would be pulling in & out of troops 3 or more times a year, or living in a very rural area with no local troop, where you would have to travel a long distance be part of a troop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callooh! Callay!1428010939 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 "Lone Scouts have to meet criteria.. You need to either be home schooled (that's the one most of us disagree with as these kids should be finding ways outside of school to socialize with kids their own age.), or traveling so much you would be pulling in & out of troops 3 or more times a year, or living in a very rural area with no local troop, where you would have to travel a long distance be part of a troop." What is quoted above is at odds with BSA publications on the program - see here http://www.directservicebsa.org/pdf/14-420.pdf and note that the categories listed that would make lone scouting a desirable option are listed as being categories as making it a desirable option - NOT as the only categories allowable. Here's a little blog about a Lone Scout program that did encounter some difficulty getting started as council officials were either ignorant of or resistant to the program: www.lonescouting.com See "The Journey Begins Section" Regarding this: "these kids should be finding ways outside of school to socialize with kids their own age" Sorry, but that objection is a flashing neon sign advertising ignorance. Google "what about socialization" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 suzy your under some illusion that district is there to help you. They are not. The DE is interested in financial and boy numbers which directly impact his pocket book and chances for advancement. Attend a roundtable and find an older scouter and speak with them to mentor your troop. Send your boys to camp with a provisional troop. Hold their merit badge cards till ya get the other three boys to create your troop with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosetracker Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 So I googled.. Says what I said. Homeschoolers get their socialization by getting out and being active in ther communities.. I am not against home schooling when they do things with there kids to find ways to get them out into their communities.. I know many children who have been home schooled very well, had one that was part of an after school program called "Odyssey of the mind" in order to get them out socialing with others in school.. I have friends and neighbors who have their children going to Art programs, Karate, softball, they were excited when I suggested cub scouts in our town for their kids.. They are looking for activities to get their children out socializing.. Being a Lone Scout, does not do that, being involved in a BS troop does do that. You need to find things to get them socializing with other adults of all ages, and other kids in order to give home schoolers great opportunities to socialize.. Even your googled artical points that out.. It does not say, home schoolers do just find only working with their parents on everything until their 18th birthday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattlePioneer Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Hello Moosetracker, > If a real parent signs up a real boy for a Troop in New York when they live in California, what's wrong with that? You want five Scouts to start a troop, you get five Scouts and start your troop. How does that violate any BSA rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callooh! Callay!1428010939 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 And you assume that if they are Lone Scouts that they will do nothing in the community? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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