Restricting Tiger electives

[Sprocket]

In another thread, the abuse of repeating Tiger electives was brought up, such as Elective 14, which involves reading a short story or magazine article with your parent or adult partner (what about kids who read every night?) or Elective 48, taking a ride on public transportation (a parent who wanted to count the scout riding the bus to and from school each day?)

 

The responses I usually see when this is brought up involve scouters saying that they only count each elective once, or they'll let a scout count each twice, or some limitation like that.

 

The Tiger electives are going to be a conundrum for me, too. It makes no sense to count so many repetitions of an elective (like the examples above), but the instructions in the Tiger handbook specifically state that electives may be completed more than once.

 

If we place restrictions on repeating electives, are we adding to the requirements?

[WVCubDad]

What I've done so far with my own son and suggested to other Tiger Partners in my den is to place a repeated elective in the next line (or lines) of paws for the Tiger Track Beads. That way it's being counted towards a bead, but not abused as in having one or more beads for just one elective.

 

I haven't had anyone yet (knock on wood) argue that they should be able to put it all on one line. But, if they did, that's okay becuase they are the Akela for their son and unless I've totally misunderstood the BSA guidance, I'm to take at face value what they are telling me. A gentle reminder of searching out and discovering new things to try and share generally brings a nod from both Tiger and Partner and a different elective reported as complete the next week.

 

John

Tiger Den Leader

Pack 13

Potomac District

Shenandoah Area Council

[SSScout]

I wouldn't call it 'reatricting', necessarily.

 

Put unofficially, my take on Scout badges (Tiger on up...) is that their earning is intended to 1)encourage the trying of new activities 2) reinforce good, healthy behavior 3) encourage the attainment of life enhancing (even survival) skills and 4) help boost the boys self-esteem.

Especially in Cubs (but also in BS) often one is encouraging the adult in the above categories, too. The parent often learns along with the boy.

 

If one learns how to ride the Public Transit System, all of the above categories have been fulfilled. If you then ride the PTS everyday (to work, to school, etc.), yeah, you can say you are fulfilling those categories again and again, but not for the first time. We don't award the First Class badge every time a boy cooks over a campfire and comes home safe from a 7 mile hike in the woods, just when he shows the first time that he can do it safely.

 

Perhaps the "Gold Star" on the fridge routine could be suggested for safely coming home each day on the school bus or sitting down with dad to hear a story. I know some younguns that enjoyed that sort of positive reinforcement to help them to concentrate on what needed to be done. A gold star earned for one occasion, so many (?7?10?20?) earns a movie night or some other reward, just not another bead! Lordy, how you gonna walk with all those beads dragging on the floor? Trips up a fellas feet, it does.

 

 

 

YiS Beads and all.

 

[ScoutNut]

Remember, Tigers & their parents are new to scouting (for the most part). They are both learning as they go.

 

Simply talk to your Tiger Teams at the start of the year (or now!) about the purposes of Cub Scouting & it's Core Values. Explain that if you redo an elective it should be done in a different way. Explain that reading every day for school is great, but that the purpose of the electives is to try lots of different things, not just one.

 

Also, as an FYI, Elective #14 is about the TIGER CUB learning to read. Having a parent read TO the boy is not fulfilling the requirement. The Tiger should be the one doing the reading to the adult. I would say it would be fine to have the Tiger read a short story from Boy's Life, a newspaper article, a short book, a magazine article, a fairy tale, etc. The Tiger should stretch himself & try to read different, harder, things.

 

What I do is have the families write a little explaination of what they did by each elective. That way it is easier to keep track of what has been signed off on (if they have E#11 signed off because of Scouting for Food & that's all I can add other things I know the boy has participated in like bringing food for Thanksgiving Mass). Also, since there is not a whole lot of space in the book, it is kind of self limiting.

[Ms. Eagle 515]

While sure someone somewhere could see the potential to abuse this opportunity, and I've run into those people before, I think the original question was innocent enough. Tiger Cubs and Boys Scouts are way apart when we come to advancements. I took a good hard long look at the requirements as well as the totem when the changes first took place. If a boy completed each elective only once, there would be alot of room left over on his elective thong. The acheivements are meant to be done and credited once and as such they are awarded with a big bead that fills the thong. The only way to fill the thong for the electives is to repeat them. A simple explanation to parents about not abusing this ususally suffices. Take celebrating a birthday. A child may attend several each month, but something may make one different than the others like say he is a caucasian child who just attended a quince, Hispanic celebration of a 15th birthday(sorry, I don't know how to put in the accents). The next month, maybe his middle eastern neighbor throws their child a party with delicacies from their "homeland". The Tiger is experiencing something different each time and is learning so it should be counted.

 

If you limit the program too much, you'll have one anemic looking thong out of the four on the totem. Sometimes something seems to obvious to parents as well, and they ask questions like the original to make sure they don't seem dumb. I didn't really think it fit in on the darndest things forum I guess because I've heard that question asked by well meaning people who didn't want to appear greedy.

[JeffD]

I started the other thread and have the following to offer up.

 

First, our boys are required to read 4/5 books per week in school. My son usually reads more especially when his little sister asks him to read a bedtime story (enough of the cute family stuff that I will remember always). He has completed 25 different electives and has told me he wants to do them all. My son, as well as a small group of our tigers, are very eager to learn and complete as much as possible. I can count on them to really learn something and help others when they want to learn. As a father and a leader, I truly am lucky to have such a good group of scouts.

 

I was also very torn on this subject. The book clearly states that the electives can be repeated. We decided to tell the parents that we would rather limit the electives to 2 times towards the beads and that they should try to do as many things as possible.

 

If we were to go strictly by the book, my son would have earned at least 15 elective discs (150+ electives) with a majority being the reading. Instead, he has completed 38 of the electives (repeating some of the 25).

 

[SpongeBob]

I think what needs to be done is that the parents should be told that upon repeating an elective, the "Do _Your_ Best" bar should be raised.

 

Now if you ride the same bus to school every day, how can you Do Your Best to do it better? In my opinion, you can't. You have to ride a different mode of transportation.

 

As for the book reading, it is still Do Your Best. There isn't any set level of achievement that needs to be obtained. So if a boy can only read two and three letter words, and the parent has to help with anything bigger, then that is fine, because HE is doing HIS best. Then upon redoing the elective, he should be expected to read some bigger words, but this isn't something that would occur every day of the week. Learning to read better than the last time does not happen quite that fast.

 

I never asked for any verbal or written explaination of any elective. That is called adding on the the requirements and that is wrong. I am to take Akleka's sign off as proof, and it is not my job to question it or even question the boy. This is the way it works for Tigers, Wolves, and Bears. I have seen overzealous leaders do this to the boys, and it results in tears. Remember, the purpose of Cub Scouting is to expose boys to new things, not to make them master every single skill.

 

The important thing is to stress the "do it better" bar to the parents. If a boy has 85 sign-offs for reading, then shouldn't he be reading at the college level?

 

There probably isn't a definite right or wrong answer to this. All you can really do is to explain to the parents how boys are to do a better job than last time when they repeat electives. Most parents I know won't put in the effort to do one elective better 84 more times.

 

Honesty is also one of the Cub Scout core values. How can a boy honestly do one elective better 85 times? Parents need to set a good, honest example for their son by only signing off electives when they are done better.

 

[ScoutNut]

"I never asked for any verbal or written explaination of any elective. That is called adding on the the requirements and that is wrong."

 

Nope - Not adding requirements at all.

 

We do a LOT of stuff. Between family, den & Pack activities there is a lot going on. As Den Leader it is my JOB to keep track of what the boys are doing, to keep every thing straight, to keep good records & to make sure the boys get ALL of the recognitions they deserve.

 

Having the families (AND ME) put a note in the handbook saying what their elective activity was, a date helps too, does 3 things -

 

1) It helps me to make sure they are getting credit for EVERYTHING they have done & that I am not accidently counting (or leaving out) something they did at a Pack/den activity when their family has already signed (or not signed) for it. With the notes I can easily tell that the elective signoff is for X activity they did & I can then add Z activity that they have also done but not signed for.

 

2) Especially with new families who are unfamiliar with the program, it is easier to tell if an activity was done while a Scout or when they went to visit Aunt Jane while in preschool.

 

3) It gives the boys a more detailed history of their Scout year. In years to come they can look thru their handbook and more easily say "Gee, I remember when we did that!"

 

 

"I think what needs to be done is that the parents should be told that upon repeating an elective, the "Do _Your_ Best" bar should be raised."

 

THAT, IMHO, is where the adding to requirements comes in.(This message has been edited by ScoutNut)