Eagle Projects..what is acceptable and what is not.

[gwd-scouter]

Wow, thanks Scoutnut, I missed that part in the Project Workbook.

[John-in-KC]

CA_Scouter,

 

Heavens yes! ELSP's our Troop has done for our Chartere Partner include:

- Renovated the exterior of the Chartered Partner's building (taken out single pane glass, inserted wall compartments, insultated them, sheathed them, and painted them.

- Renovated the "Community Serving Activities" area of the Chartered Partner's building (the space they let churches, museums, and the CAP borrow for free) by tearing out old wallboard, reinsulating, resheathing, installing new electrical/phone/cable/data lines, and repainting (two separate but concurrent projects), as well as tear out existing lighting, install a dropped ceiling, wire it, and install lighting.

- Build two 500 sq ft storage outbuildings for the Chartered Partner.

 

There are all kinds of examples out there. You just have to follow the rule that the project isn't directly supportive of the BSA program.

[Eagle1984]

John-in-KC

Agree with all that the District and Council Advancement Committees have, by National Council Policy, to approve an Eagle Leadership Service Project before it goes forward.

 

Does a blood drive pass muster? Depends on what the local Council Advancement Committee tells the districts it's willing to accept. I'd advise Eagle1984 to sit down with the District Advancement or Council Advancement Chairman or the professional staff member responsible for advancement and have a quiet talk.

 

As to EagleinKY's comment, Irving is turning around Eagle Packages in less than a week. There's no approval down there; they're receiving the app, processing the paperwork, and pushing a business certificate sized envelope out the door. The EBOR, from my recent experience, is the final check and balance for most youth. The ones for whom it's not the final are:

- Those who are entering an appeal process because they were rejected by the EBOR

- Those who need an extension to obtain an EBOR after their 18th birthday.

 

Again, my observations.

 

John, very good observations. I am a member of the district advancement committee and have already done what you have stated. The district and council advancement committee don't see where a project like this would show leadership, since the blood center does most of the legwork to begin with. The problem is as stated earlier in this thread is that The American Red Cross (depending on the area) has a sheet out for Basic Criteria for an Eagle Scout Project. The number #1 item is that the scout MUST provide a minimum of 55 donors as a goal depending on the target market's population base. I have organized a few of these in the past 3 years for my church and have not once even come close to the goal that was set for me by the blood center. How can the scout be expected to reach the same goal. Not everyone can give blood.

 

I did a search on Blood Drives for Eagle Projects and saw at least 2 to 3 blood centers with criteria for Eagle porjects on organizing a blood drive.

 

Let me ask this question then, What exactly make a blood center experienced enough to determine or set criteria's on what is an acceptable Eagle project ? Has this criteria been approved by National.

 

Before being tuned into the bad guy on this, I just want to state that every blood center/bank is always looking for blood 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days of the year. Communities hold drives as do community groups, and other organizations within the community.

[John-in-KC]

Eagle 1984,

 

Speaking only for myself ...

 

IF a Scout had his local church, school or chartered partner (through the rest of this: "target place") Never Ever do blood drives...

 

IF the Scout sold his target place on starting regular blood drives....

 

IF the Scout was willing to recruit not only the donors, but also the volunteer support for the first 2-3 blood drives...

 

IF the Scout was actively involved with the blood bank in their arrival, site setup, operations, and tear-down...

 

AND IF the Scout had plans to cement a long-term relationship between his target place and the sponsoring blood bank...

 

THEN I'd buy into a blood drive.

 

Short of that, I'd be pressed, either at unit, sponsoring agency, or District level...

[OldGreyEagle]

Isn't it funny how the same document can be looked at so many different ways, or am I just channeling Ed?

 

Scout Nut

Anyway, in the Eagle Leadership Project Workbook, in the section titled "Limitations", it's just above the section you quoted, it states, "Routine labor (a job or service normally rendered) should not be considered..." now this will involve an admitted interpretation but in our District we take this to mean it has to be more than a "routine" service project. Organizing a work party to cut the grass at the local park is a great idea and helpful to a community with restricted park funds, but a few weeks later the grass will need to be cut again, therefore we consider it routine labor as cutitng the grass is a job normally done. Now, looking at that same park and leading a work crew to remove a few years worth of undergrowth so that it enlarges the useful area of the park is different as it involves the use of axes or power tools and arranging for the disposal of the cut brush. Of course then putting up a piece of playground equipment along with plantings researched by the scout would be great.

 

When I said the project should be of import to the community, I used the phrase I always tell scouts who ask me about Eagle Projects, I want them to consider a project that stretches them a little, to enlarge their scope.

 

If I implied that this sentence "The concept of the Eagle Leadership project is that it is to be a service project of lasting import to the community" was found in any BSA literature, I apologize, I resolve to use quotation marks when I cite any BSA source or at least give a website address where such may be found.

 

Interestingly enough, the section above "Limitations" is titled "Originality" and it reads as follows

 

"Does the leadership service project for Eagle have to be original, perhaps something you dream up that has never been done before? The answer: No, but it certainly could be. You may pick a project that has been done before, but you must accept responsibility for planning, directing, and following through to its successful completion."

 

How does a scout do these things for a Blood Drive when the organization has the event planned, organized and provides the equipment and supplies. Like I said, it depends on how its written

 

http://www.nesa.org/trail/18-936.doc(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[John-in-KC]

OGE,

 

I'm a Veteran! Thanks to my service to my Nation, and thanks to the *&^%$#@#$%^&*((*&^%$#@ FDA and blood donation protocols, I am now PERMANENTLY DEFERRED from donating blood. Why? I was stationed in Europe during the waning days of the Cold War, and I am a risk for Mad Cow disease.

 

As Colonel Sherman T Potter, Cavalry, Medical Corps, more than once said: BULLHOCKEY.

 

Anyway.

 

The blood supply, since June 1 2002 (the date hundreds of thousands of Veterans were FDA protocol permanently deferred from the donor pool), has fallen to historic lows. My local non-profit blood center tells me there are days in Flyover Country where there is not one day of supply of blood and products in the pipeline.

 

If a Scout is volunteering to simply be the keyperson at a place where folks already give blood, you're right, that's service hours, not an ELSP.

 

If however, as I stated, the Scout develops and builds a relationship between a pool of donors and a blood center, and that relationship is designed to last over time, then, to me, it needs to be evaluated for an ELSP on its merits.

 

YIS :-)

[OldGreyEagle]

Actually, I think ol' Sherm used the phrase "Horse hockey", he was an old cavalry man you know but I digress. Like I have said from the beginning, it depends on how its written, I dont see how, but if the sticking points are covered, it might be ok

[Eagle1984]

Ok, Let try this one...

 

If a scout were to do a Blood Drive for an Eagle Project and the Blood Center sets a limit of 40 pints(which they do) to be collected and at the end of the drive it is determined that only 30 pints is collected. Does this constitute a successful Eagle Project ? FYI, the Blood Center won't sign the paperwork to approve as the limit that they set was not collected.

 

I am done with this thread.

[local1400]

Eagle1984, you cant be done with this thread because you started it! OGE-- Those boys in the suits and sunglasses sure were nice. They just wanted to get to know me by taking me for a ride, they got me some coffee and cigarettes, took me to some place I dont know where, but they said they were farmboys from Virginia! Yes, I know feds are at my work too. Ever see the CFR49 for transportation? Parts 200 to 399--1,176 pages of pretty small type!

[John-in-KC]

Now we're on a different tack.

 

BSA Publication 18-927 is the Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook

 

On page 6 are the signatures of the sponsoring agency, for whom the service gets performed. To me, this is an agreement between the Scout and the sponsoring agency.

 

If you look at the next to the last page, the sponsoring agency gets to sign off on "The project was planned, developed and carried out" (emphasis added) "by the candidate." In other words, the sponsoring agency gets a vote.

 

"Do not add to or take from"... imo DOES NOT APPLY. The sponsoring agency for the ELSP can set their own standards. It's part of the the contract, and may well be a life lesson, if they refuse to accept the work done as meeting the standards.

 

Going to your hypothetical (or perhaps actual): If they said 40 pints, and the candidate got 30, he has not achieved their standards.

[EagleInKY]

John - You are correct about National. I was only stating the fact that it's not official until the paperwork comes back. A few years ago, before it has become somewhat automated, I understand that there were some kicked back for data mistakes (although those are supposed to be caught before the BOR). Anymore, I think it's pretty much a rubber stamp to make sure all the i's are dotted and t's are crossed.

[acco40]

Right wrong or indifferent, my district advancement chair warns against doing blood drives. Primary reason, difficult to show leadership.

 

As for "lasting", too many think of "things" and not "actions" for ESLPs. I agree that routine labor is out. However, I know a talented young man who organized a group of his friends (mostly out of Scouts but high school age) to work with a senior center (i.e. nursing home) for a six month period. They met at least once a week - sometimes one on one, sometimes with their pets, many were musicians or artisans and displayed/taught their talents, etc. He exhibited leadership, provided a service and it was not "routine" labor. The seniors involved were very appreciative and some of the relationships carried on after the projects "completion."

 

Now, if I could only get my two Life Scout sons to get off their duff and ....

 

[Eagle1984]

Thank you acco. I was hoping that someone would step foreward and bring what their district feels about blood drives.

[OldGreyEagle]

I only ask this because at times I suffer from JanBrady syndrome, when you talk and post and it doesnt seem like anyone heard/read what you said. What was wrong with my description of how my home district handles Blood drives?

[Eagle1984]

Thanks you too OGE, Your response was great as always.