Board of Review

[Hunt]

"First let me say that this is not directed AT Hunt, I seem to be in opposition to her views in other threads as well, it is directed at the condition she brings to light."

 

I don't know why you think I'm female...I'm not. It's my experience that in many troops the committee members tend to know the boys and the program pretty well. Most of them are parents, and many of them are active with the troop. Since the BOR is not supposed to be a test in the first place, I think it can be an advantage to know the boy, because then you know what to talk about. I suppose it would be nice to have people on the committee who were knowledgeable about Scouting and scout skills, but who weren't heavily involved in the program--they could be a good quality check on the program. But for my son's troop, and I suspect many others, this is simply not the reality. We're more likely to have the problem of committee members who don't have much experience with Scouting, and don't really know what to ask about, until they get some experience and training.

 

"I guess I'd like to be known as an adult that expects 100%. Who wants to be known as easy? "Ah, give it to Mr. Jekyll to sign off on, he's easy." I think you cheat a kid when you do that. It gives me no pleasure to refuse a Scout promotion but even less to pass a boy and have him think the whole program is a bunch of male bovine soil. They come to be challenged. Nothing in the world is better than the "achievement smile". That's the look you get when the whole thing comes together. That's golden!"

 

But remember that we're not talking about signing off requirements. We're talking about the BOR, which takes place after the requirements have been signed off. I agree with you that no requirement should be signed off unless it's performed 100%, and that's what I insist on, for example, as a merit badge counselor. But I still maintain that the BOR is not supposed to be a challenge--it's supposed to be a friendly conversation. (It can be less friendly if there are significant problems to discuss, of course.) To me, the best BORs are when a boy gets praise from a group of adults he respects.

[LongHaul]

Hunt,

I apologize for the mistake in gender assessment. I cant really say why I thought you were female but obviously I did. I agree that having members of the troop committee to serve as a BOR who are not also involved on a day to day level is not the reality in many if not most troops. BORs in the troops I am associated with are composed of people that indeed have a day to day association with the unit. In the troop I serve as SM BORs are almost always composed of our CC our Advancement Chair and our Outdoor Activities Chair. In fact the CC is at every meeting and goes on every outing as he hauls our trailer. The AC is actually registered as an ASM as is the OAC. The four of us carry 90% of the load, small troop, and limited resources. Getting a parent or non-regular to sit on a BOR is a rarity but we employ them every time they stray into our midst. The point I was trying to make is that we allow for the fact that reality requires that we evaluate the intent of Nationals position on the make up of a BOR with respect to availability of personnel. Some of us seem to be letter of the Law in one area but what ever it takes in another. You say that the BOR is not supposed to be a test then say that its good to have a preconceived opinion of the Scout and use that as a basis for questioning. Thats not how its supposed to work anymore than retesting. The BOR does not need to have scout skills, whether they know a bowline from a bovine is irrelevant. The person signing off the requirement is supposed to know that and the BOR accepts that. What is Nationals objective in requiring BORs? 1.) to make sure the Scout has done what he was supposed to do for the rank. 2.) to see how good an experience the Scout is having in the unit. 3.) to encourage the Scout to progress further. What is the BORs purpose? 1.) To make sure that the work has been learned and completed. 2.) To check to see what kind of experience the boy is having in his patrol and troop. 3.) to encourage the Scout to advance to the next rank. Numbers 2 and 3 are pretty much interchangeable between objective and purpose but Number 1 opens things up for discussion. What is the boy supposed to do for rank advancement? Get all the things signed off in his book. The person signing off is responsible for checking level of learning and completion of the requirement. When the BOR is given the task of insuring that the work has been learned and completed view points become focused on favored phrases and terminology. What are we trying accomplish with respect to the boy by having him stand for review? Why can we ask a scout to repeat the Oath and Law and discuss them, which are requirements for rank advancement, but not ask him to tie a bowline or demonstrate his ability to perform any task which is also a requirement? How can a BOR execute the duty entrusted to it when they know the work has not been learned nor completed? (As with the case we have discussed elsewhere in which a Scout received a signed Merit Badge Card for a MB he did not complete.) National writes the rules in shades of gray but we try to find black and white.

LongHaul

 

[AvidSM]

I've had boys at a scoutmaster's conference recite the oath and law cold and then flub them in the BOR. Afterwards the committee memeber would tell me what happend and I would say, "but he just did it OK for me!" The difference is that boys are more comfortable with me as their scoutmaster and get nervous at the BOR. Committee members should keep this in mind when they are reviewing a boy's progress through the ranks.

 

As others have said, the BOR as a check on how the adult and youth leaders are doing their job in teaching the advancement skills. If enough committee members get the feeling that the boys at the BOR's don't know their stuff, they should start ask the SM some questions.

 

Also, I think this is a case of terminology. The BSA does not want us using the word "fail" - it might discourage a boy. Better to say, "you need to work on thus-and-such and come back when you are ready". My troop's CM's have turned back boys at BORs using this language with no negative effects.

[theysawyoucomin']

yes Hunt,

I got my subjects mixed up. 100% when you teach or 1 on 1 time

or sign off, not the BOR.

 

My Cubs Scouts used to get made when they brought a knot to me and asked if it was right. If It was I'd say yes and then promptly untie it. They would say, "Whatcha do that for?" I replied well make it again you just showed you know how!

 

Thanks again to all who contributed.

[Fuzzy Bear]

By testing a Scout at the BOR on how to tie a bowline, we have in fact re-tested him (circular motion in action). If we ask the Scout what a bowline is used for at a BOR, then we have inquired as to the use of the knot, which may be just as important as how to tie it. Lets see how it works

 

Mr. B (MC) is asking Jim (Scout) questions at his BOR

 

Mr. B. throws Jim some rope.

 

Jim here is a bit of rope, tie us a bowline.

 

OK Mr. B., here it is. How did I do?

 

Jim, I am only a Committee Member not the SM. How would I know if it is correct?

 

That is a good question Mr. B. Maybe you should ask that one at our next BOR.

 

OK Jim. I think you got me on that one, ha, ha, ha.

 

By the way Jim, what is a bowline used for?

 

Gee Mr. B. I dont have a clue.

 

Jim I am afraid I must put you on hold until you figure out what it us used for. I am sorry to keep you hanging but that is my job.

 

Later

 

Mr. SM, Jim doesnt seem to know what a bowline is all about. Is knot tying part of our program here so there will be ample time for Scouts to learn to tie the knots and understand their intended uses?

 

Mr. B. I believe you have pointed out a flaw in our program. I will take it before the PLC and request that we make it a part of our next few meetings and part of our program at our next campout.

 

Mr. SM, you mean to tell me that you are using the results of the BOR to evaluate and upgrade the program?

 

Sure Mr. B. that is one of the uses of the results of the BOR. It helps us to plan more effectively and to tweak our programs as we go along. Sometimes we just don't have enough repetition on fun things like knots.

 

That sure sounds good to me.

 

Hey SM, lets get a cup of coffee and talk about the Troops next campout. I think I would like to help out and maybe I could learn some of those knots too.

 

*Sun sets in the distance and a few birds fly overhead. Clouds begin to move in and the wind begins to rise. Cold weather is on the horizon. fb

(This message has been edited by Fuzzy Bear)