Eagle Felon

[Hunt]

The way this should have been handled was for some wise person to take the boy and his mother aside and advise them to withdraw the request for the BOR until the record has been expunged. I tend to think that is still the way this should be handled now--that same wise person should tell the SM to step back as well and stop fanning the flames. The mother should be advised that if she really wants everybody in town to be focusing on her son's crime, she should appeal. If she doesn't want that, she should wait.

[eagle-pete]

Fuzzy -

Convene the EBOR and let the chips fall where they may! Do you not trust the BOR process to make appropriate judgment in this situation? If so, then let's abolish the entire BOR process. Let's go ahead and let the decision rest wholly on the shoulders of one individual: The Scoutmaster.

 

Mom is angry that a EBOR has been denied - at this point, the rank has not had even the chance of review. If an EBOR can be convened, and the rank is denied, the scout may appeal... Who will mom yell at then? This works to the SM advantage as well. He can still stay clean out of it, and wash his hands of the situation once the Board rules.

 

I agree whole heartedly with SSScout - Convene the EBOR

 

Eagle Pete

[John-in-KC]

As I understand things...

 

We have a Scout who meets the requirements to request candidacy to Eagle:

- Prior rank

- Merit Badges

- Position of Responsibility

- Eagle Leadership Service Project

 

If he presents an application, the Scoutmaster has two choices:

- He can convene a Scoutmaster conference

- He can refuse a Scoutmaster conference

 

If the Scoutmaster convenes the conference, but determines Scout Spirit (our life away from Scouting) is not acceptable, the Scout has an appeal process.

 

If the Scoutmaster refuses the conference, the Scout has an appeal process.

 

IF A SCOUT REQUESTS A BOARD OF REVIEW, HE MUST BE GIVEN ONE. BOARDS OF REVIEW ARE NOT JUST FOR RANK ADVANCEMENT PURPOSES, THEY SUPPORT THE ADULT ASSOCIATION METHOD OF SCOUTING.

 

That's at least what I remember from position specific training!

 

If the Scout is denied an Eagle BOR, he (or his folks) immediately has cause to contact the Council and ask for assistance.

 

I know what would happen in my District: The District Advancement Chairman would immediately withdraw the advancement of the Scout from his unit. He'd find a disinterested SM to give the SM conference. He'd convene a BOR from his own level.

 

Now, would the boy earn his Eagle? Goodly chance NOT. If we follow Scoutings' advancement procedures, dot the i's, and cross the t's, the young man may not have a big ceremony. That said, he just might learn something from the process!

[theysawyoucomin']

Hunt,

 

I think you hit the nail on the head.

 

To All

I would think there would still be those, that if the Eagle was awarded after a year probation/remorse/whatever, that would say,"Look at what Chuckie did he still got the Eagle award".

 

Chuckie still has "lot of 'splainin' to do".

 

I wonder if slavery would have been abolished if some people in Boston hadn't been so darned judgemental of those slave holders in the south.

 

[packsaddle]

Fireworks were illegal where I grew up (NC). But I remember quite well sitting in the back seat of the deputy's car with my little 7-year-old buddies, fuses poking out of our shirt pockets...and the deputy leaning over the seat looking mean asking, "you boys know anything about someone shooting firecrackers?". We were wide-eyed, practically frozen with fear and almost unable to respond, "nooo sirrrr".

Trevorum a couple of years later I and those buddies had almost exactly the same experience you had. Interesting. And every last one of us is still alive today...amazing.

 

Fuzzy, I think the comment about the KoolAid was more a reference to a certain religious cult and its demise, not to imply that you are a druggie.

At age 16 this kid is guilty at least of apocalyptic stupidity and his mother doesn't put much of a shine on things either. But if he has been charged, I tend to agree with letting the process happen in the proper manner. If he or his mother is bent on pressing the issue, then they by-all-means should. A powerful lesson is being taught to everyone no matter how it is resolved.

[EagleInKY]

hunt - Good response. I concur.

 

I don't want to pass judgment on the lad. I think it's entirely possible that he was up to youthful "antics". A good friend of mine in High School decided to make a homemade explosive with some of our friends (luckily, I wasn't there, or I probably would have gone along with it). There plan was to blow up some plastic toy cars for fun. In planning their fun, he blew off 1 1/2 fingers. (Ouch). He was lucky, and was still able to play the Saxophone. Kids do stupid things. I hope that's all this was.

[Trevorum]

"Kids do stupid things."

 

Boy, howdy!

 

I've told you about (one of) the stupid things I did as a kid. Let me tell you about one of the stupid things my Eagle Scout son did. Back when he was 10 or 11 he built a fort in the woods behind our house. One day, as I was relaxing on the porch with a book, I saw him running off towards the fort carrying two buckets of water. Did not register in my brain. Several minutes later he was back, again lugging a couple of pails of water. CLICK! Why does a kid urgently need several buckets of water? Like a shot, I was up out of my chair, sprinting into the woods with a shovel. Luckily, by the time I got there, the fire inside the fort was almost out. Another couple of buckets and some quick work with the shovel and I was able to gasp at him, "What the heck were you thinking??"

 

It was a classic teaching moment and we both made good use of it. Ever since he almost burned down the woods, I've noticed that he has a profound respect for fire. Did I mention that he is an Eagle?

 

I think that all kids (well, mostly boys) do stupid things now and then. It's part of growing up and learning about the world.

 

I hope that the fellow in baden's troop will learn from his mistake and that he will be given the opportunity to prove it to his friends and to his Scoutmaster.

[baden]

First. I want to thank all for your interest and input.

 

Second. This boy is not in my Troop. Not to say my little angels couldn't do something this dumb, but they haven't yet.

 

Third. I have printed out your input and given it to the involved parties. i.e. the SM and the Dist. Tng. Chair. There have been many valid points made on both sides of this discussion and I value the wisdom of the forum.

 

Fourth. Happily I don't know if anything happened with this over the weekend as I was camping with my Troop and have been incommunicado.

[eagle-pete]

Well, if I knew you were going to give this to the SM I would have been more blunt! (kidding)

 

Anyway, let us know how it all turns out.

 

Eagle Pete

[Fuzzy Bear]

eagle-pete,

 

I agree that the BOR should be held and that they should make their decision. If I swayed your vote a little the other direction because I don't like kids making and having bombs with them these days, then I apologize. I simply wanted to know if there had been an investigation. My question about the Mother's defense concerns me because she apparently doesn't believe her son to be guilty of an offense. It may be that there really is a reasonable doubt. If there isn't any other circumstances other than she agrees that kids should make and have bombs with them then she should be heard as well, especially if it goes to the District level. People need to be aware of her view for safety's sake. fb

 

Pack,

 

The Jim Jones scenario doesnt fit with what Uz2bnowl said but then he has an opportunity to explain.

 

[theysawyoucomin']

Yes the Kool aid ref is for Jim Jones. True believers drank the kool aid. One of my liberal demorat cutomers calls me a kool aid drinker when ever I support our president. I don't know anything about kool aid and drugs.

 

Enlighten me.

 

I did not nor will I ever accuse somebody here of drug abuse.

 

I believe I opened the political can of worms.

 

I don't believe I was wrong.

 

OJ surely murdered his wife and her waiter. He was found not guilty by a bunch of folks that probably have not been treated very well in their past and you could see why they voted the way they did.

 

Clinton later admitted he had relations with Flowers.

 

 

 

It is possible the smartest lady in the world did not know but I doubt it. As a New York state resident I am appalled that we have 16 million people here and we had to import a candidate from Arkansas. can you say stepping stone to the White House?

 

T'was later found that it was not Mayonaise on the dress. And my kid had to hear enough about willie's breaking the vow's to his wife and swearing before God that he would be truthful. Treat you daughter's mother like that and you are filth, pure and simple.Enough nightly news about what he did that my child had to ask what type of sex it was.

 

Foley is a nasty man. I'm available for the firing squad if needed.

 

Ted Kennedy is guilty of Manslaughter, yet the true believers, the kool aid drinkers still vote for him.

 

I am assuming you think Mr. Bush is a liar and the war is illegal.

As far as it being an illegal war, I was at the Kuwaiti International Airport when it was explained to us that we would take our foot off Saddam's throat if he abided by what the UN said. years later he did not. So we put our foot back on his throat. Quite simple to a knuckle dragger like me. the term chickenhawk does not apply.

 

I was in Kuwait when no earthly force on the planet could have removed us. Then we promptly left. So much for blood for oil. So much for conquest.So much for the dribble about us pumping the Middle East dry.

 

I believe the media will lose this just like they lost Vietnam. Kerry admitted he was guilty of War Crimes(there's no statute of limitations by the way) and made life tougher for those who still served.

 

How many Cambodians, Laotians and Vietnamese died because we did not complete that mission?

 

Was Lyndon Johnson a real democrat or would you just like to forget him?

 

Was Robert Byrd really in the KKK just for free linen?

 

There is no shortage of dirt on either side of the aisle.

 

Nixon and Foley resigned.

 

Byrd and Kennedy still serve. Bill Clinton still thinks reporters should be ashamed of themselves.(Chris Wallace)

 

It is hypocracy to say you love the Troops yet think their mission is not worthy. I know they are robots that got bad grades and had nothing better to do. I joined because the circus would hire me. I am a minority so that is why Charlie Rangel(who by the way voted against his own military draft bill last year) thinks I joined.

 

Fuzzy,

You admit you have trouble telling what is right. If things are that fuzzy for you please don't insult my president. I do not think you are a drug abuser.

 

Many mistakes have been made in Iraq. War is not a chess game. There are no do overs. In WW2 an island in the Aleutians was invaded by the US Army. There were 24 soldiers killed because of blue on blue rifle fire. No Japanese were on the island at all. Today Mr. Roosevelt would have been lambasted if that happened.

 

 

Back on topic I thought HUNT said it best.

 

I think it is sad that this happened to this lad. He did something unacceptable in this day and age.He had to learn the hard way. Atleast he and others were not physically harmed.

[Oak Tree]

Well, it's quite a tangent, but I certainly didn't see the kool-aid reference as an insult.

 

We use this phrase all the time at work to indicate that people are getting together in a group and engaging in groupthink, where they all reinforce one another's opinions and don't engage in critical thinking to realize that they are actually, for example, developing a product that no one will actually want to use. It's generally used good-naturedly, but sometimes with a hint of exasperation. It does not suggest that the people are drug users - it is using kool-aid (and in particular, the decision to drink it) as a metaphor for the decision to support whatever the actual (perceived) wrong-headed decision is.

 

At least, that's how I took it.

 

Oak Tree

[Hunt]

"Drinking the kool-aid" has become a common expression inside the Beltway for people who have uncritically bought into their group's views--it's sort of like calling somebody a "dittohead."

 

Trivia fact: They didn't drink Kool-Aid at Jonestown--it was Flavor-Ade.

[madmike]

I didnt think a felony can be expunged? Or are they making a special case since he is a minor?

[Fuzzy Bear]

Ok, thanks for the update on the use of the term, Kool-aid to imply that I am aimlessly following along. It doesnt fit with what I do nor do I see it with anyone else here. What I do see is that there are many differing opinions on many subjects. Some opinions seem to warrant more consideration than others because of the amount of insightful knowledge used to arrive at some of their conclusions. It is rare that any of us change political persuasions simply because someone makes a good argument for a candidate or their positions. I do grow tired of those that believe that the present administration is perfect in every way and that the last one was imperfect in every way. It is that kind of extremism that violates freedom of speech by painting the opposition with anti-American slogans. I dont find that kind of rhetoric to be any better than the commercials they were derived.

 

Once again:

I agreed with Bush about going to war about the WMD but they were not found. I dont believe that he lied about WMD.

 

He did lie about us not being Nation Builders and then he turned around and is doing it. He said it and now we are in the midst of a storm that can only get worse. People are getting killed over his lie so there is no comparison with Clinton lying about his extra-martial affair(s). I dont agree with lying from any candidate because people get hurt but when people die, it is time to confess and turn things around. fb