What's "Active"

[LongHaul]

Got this from a fellow scouter today. Anyone attend the latest Philmont Training Center Advancement seminar? LongHaul

 

To: SCOUTS-L@LISTSERV. TCU.EDU

 

At our council advancement committee meeting last night, a member of

our committee who attended the PTC advancement course this summer

presented what was discussed. There were some interesting tidbits

(like a scout is allowed to earn *any* MB ever recognized, even if

discontinued, but if discontinued, National will not supply the patch

and it may not be used for advancement (no count to the 21, not for

palms), but may be displayed on the sash if the scout can find the

patch). Hopefully Paul Wolf will now add requirements for

discontinued badges to the usscouts web site so youth can exercise this

option if they desire (of course, they need to find a counselor and

use the last published requirements) .

 

Anyway, supposedly the following definition of Active (with sub heading

scout spirit) will be added to the Advancement Committee Policies &

Procedures in the next edition. This definition is the current

definition from National and is only being offered to clarify this

often contentious issue.

 

"A Scout will be considered "active" in his unit if he is:

1) Registered in his unit (registration fees are current).

2) Has not been dismissed from his unit for disciplinary reasons.

3) Is engaged by his unit leadership on a regular basis."

 

Item three apparently had a great deal of discussion. Units are

*expressly* forbidden to use a percentage participation in advancement

in any manner (which is how the "scout spirit" part gets in there).

For instance, a unit may not say Johnny must attend at least 25% of

troop meetings to be considered active (or to have scout spirit).

 

Also, it is the unit leadership's responsibility to actively find out

why Johnny is not participating. If the unit leadership does not do

so, the unit may not consider the youth to be inactive. The example

given was that the unit leadership must repeatedly (the example

discussed was three times) attempt to contact the youth to try to

encourage more participation and find out the reason for lack of

participation. If the lack is due to conflicts or problems, then the

unit must still consider him active. If the lack is due to non-

interest or unconcern, and the unit is unable to draw Johnny back to

participation, only then may the unit consider him to be inactive.

 

There was also clarification of the appeals procedure. An appeal may

be had only if a scout is 1) refused a BOR or 2) is refused a rank

advancement at a BOR. Since a scout may demand a BOR at any time,

then a refusal by a unit to sign off on active (or any other

requirement) can be appealable, but only if the youth first demands a

BOR and is refused or the BOR turns down his advancement due to the

lack of one of the requirements, such as Active above.

 

Another interesting tidbit is that if a web fulfills the Scout

requirements prior to his crossover, the scout badge may be given to

the Web at his crossover ceremony.

 

Also clarified was what must be done before the 18th b-day and what

may be up to six months after. Requirements 1-6 must be done before,

all others may be after, including turning in the paperwork.

 

[jr56]

Interesting post, thanks for sharing.

[Beavah]

Dat's a clarification that's as clear as mud, eh? "Is engaged by his unit leadership on a regular basis?" Thanks for all the help, there, Irving.

 

I always wonder why people need legal definitions of "active" or the dozen other things in advancement that come up. Don't yeh know what a Trustworthy and Loyal man does? Don't yeh teach that to, and expect that of your scouts? It ain't a percentage, but it is a level of commitment lots bigger than "pay your registration fee."

 

Advancement is a goal to be worked toward, not a patch you get for a fee. At least to all of us who care about kids more than dollars.

[nldscout]

I have to disagree with what you said about MB's. That is not what national says. If you start working on it before its discontinued, you can finish up to 18th Bday. If you haven't started it before its discontinued, its a no go.

[FScouter]

Uhhh... "national" hasn't said anything. Interesting, but still... This is info from an internet bulletin board, from a council meeting somewhere, from a guy that went to a Philmont training, who heard "tidbits" while there.

 

While possibly plausible, until it's printed in a BSA publication, it's still just talk.

[LongHaul]

First off I did not "say" this stuff I "forwarded" information I received and asked if anyone from this forum had attended PTC recently and can confirm this info. As FScouter says until it's in the Advancement Committee Procedures and Policies publication it's just talk. All three of the items referred to in the original post contradict what I see as proper, for lack of a better term. Beginning a badge which has been "discontinued" sounds like an oxymoron to me. If it's discontinued it's discontinued. Getting credit toward Scout advancement for things you did before you became a scout doesn't fly with me either. Putting the burden of "active" on the Troop leadership sounds like the current trend from National but seems counter productive if we are trying to instill values in the youth we serve. Basically Im looking for someone out there that attended the Boy Scout Advancement sessions at PTC this summer. As to adjusting how I interpret these things, Ill wait for the next Advancement Procedures publication before I change anything.

LongHaul

 

[scoutldr]

"Item three apparently had a great deal of discussion. Units are

*expressly* forbidden to use a percentage participation in advancement

in any manner (which is how the "scout spirit" part gets in there).

For instance, a unit may not say Johnny must attend at least 25% of

troop meetings to be considered active (or to have scout spirit). "

 

The word "expressly" means it's "expressed" somewhere, i.e., written down. As we say in my line of work, "show me the reference". If no reference can be produced, it's just the opinion of a PTC instructor, third hand.

 

[acco40]

Fisrt, let's not get into a round of "shoot the messenger." If one want to "attack" the message, so be it.

 

So, accordingly, we are rewarding a Scout if he can accomplish a level of "stealthyness" from his unit leadership?

 

I agree that attendance percentages are not the exclusive way to go but the "burden" for being active should be placed on the Scout, not the unit leadership.

 

In our unit, I encourage all the Scouts who can't or don't attend meetings or outings to get in contact with me so we can arrange mutually accepted goals. Some do, some do not. Those who do not are not "active" in my book.

 

Look at what is in the boys handbook: TO GAIN FULL ADVANTAGE of all Scouting has to offer, you need to be present when things are happening. Take part in meetings, in planning activities, and in the fun of adventures. If youre there, you can do your part to make your patrol and troop a success.

 

An excellent vehicle to determine active is the Scoutmaster conference.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I did not attend the latest Philmont Training Center Advancement seminar nor did I gather information from the internet to bring more confusion on a subject fraught with so much drama.

 

I do have a few old Scout patches if anyone cares to earn one. I even have some real old MB books that could be used as well. I am willing to sell them at the going rate or higher if I can get away with it.

 

As for the rest, I will simply wait for the updates before I put on my thinking cap. FB

[gwd-scouter]

I know the definition of active has been bandied about on this and other forums for much longer than I've been a member, and I'm sure it's been a subject of debate for as long as we've had Boy Scouts.

 

I have mixed feelings about National putting into place an actual policy on what active means, but I've always found it interesting that a requirement for Varsity Scouts to earn the Varsity Letter is:

 

"Have an attendance record at team meetings and activities of at least 75 percent for three consecutive months."

 

Why would National put an attendance requirement for this award and not for anything else?

 

 

[FScouter]

Since our mission is all about teaching boys to make choices, it only seems natural that the boy ought to have some input into what he considers active. Does he choose to join in troop and patrol activities, or choose something else? The quote acco40 pulled from the boy's handbook is perfect, "you need to be present when things are happening."

 

Boys need to learn to think. Setting an arbitary standard means the boy doesn't need to figure out for himself whether is is active or not. And it's one less vehicle for a boy to learn about life.

 

We adults would do well too to figure out for ourselves what is "active" rather than hoping someone else will dictate a definition.

[evmori]

The BS Handbook says it best! To get full advantage of the program, you need to be there.

 

Letting individual Scouts define active for themselves would never work & would not be fair. If a PLC wants to decide what active is for their unit that would be OK.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[LongHaul]

It has come to my attention that a new version of the Avancement Committee Policies and Procedures publication is out Sept 2006 printing. Anybody got one? Have any of these changes actually been made?

LongHaul