Rank Advancement Deferred

[John-in-KC]

Jeff,

 

Welcome to the Boy Scout side of the campfire. There's coffee in the pot

 

I'm becoming convinced EVERY Scouter working the Boy Scout program needs two books in his/her library:

 

- The Scoutmaster's Handbook (BSA 33309)

- The Troop Committee Guidebook (BSA 34505B)

 

PROGRAM OFFICERS (Den LEaders, Cubmasters, Scoutmasters, and Advisors) and their Assistants have a gut-check responsibility: DELIVER THE SCOUTING PROGRAM to the youth. A particular responsibility of the Scoutmaster is mentorship to the youth; Scoutmaster conferences are one of the vehicles by which he does that. Although a SM conference can be done any time a Scout wants one, it's one of the mandatory checks on the way to rank advancement.

 

The BOARD OF REVIEW is conducted by the Troop Committee.

 

I quote from the Troop Committee Guidebook:

 

"When a Scout has completed all the requirements ofor a rank, he appears before a board of review composed of atl least three and not more than six committee members.

 

"The reivew has three purposes:

 

"To make sure that the work has been learned and completed.

 

"To find out what kind of experience the Scout is having in his patrol and troop.

 

"To encourage the Scout to progress further.

 

"The board of review is not a time to retest the Scout, but to determine the Scout's attitude and his acceptance of Scouting ideals."...

 

HTH.

 

YIS

[Dozy]

Agreed

(and I've been told here to get out of the book and use common sense!  To me, common sense shows, "hey, there's a book that we're supposed to follow... let's follow it!")

AND MAY I ADD, that National isn't very happy with what's going on in our Troop or our District.

Even though we have no Unit Commissioner and No District Commissioner....

Even though WE HAVE a Disctrict Advancement Chairman and Committee to whom we made an appeal... well, let's just say that the DAC may or may not be aware of their power.

National feels absolutely that the situation that happened in our BOR was totally wrong.  Our District wants to do another BOR for the scout (just found out today, to be scheduled for next week).

The SM, parents and I feel that it would be wrong to subject the scout to another BOR because it would justify the fact that the first BOR had a legitimate outcome.  In our case, our BOR made a decision, AFTER the fact, and created paperwork, citing reasons that were NOT the true reasons for deferment... not to mention bogus reasons for deferment (which, as a reminder, the reason for deferment was satisified close to immediately after the BOR concluded).

Anyway, National states that the Troop Committee AND the District Advancment Chairman has the RIGHT to overrule the BOR if the BOR is not run properly.  National states that what is needed is a "Clarification of Policy" and yes, National IS being quoted here.

SO LET ME ADD, there there have been plenty of heated discussions in this forum... and on one particular issue against me I might add, regarding Merit Badges and Rank advancement.

1)  Is the MB Counselor GOD?  is what he/she says or does IT?  Instead of our opinions, what counts is Nationals... some people here need a "Clarification of Policy" .  If the answers can't be obtained, or you have an uneasy feeling about the answer you receive at your District or even your Council Level CALL TEXAS!  Don't post it here, you'll get 10 different answers.  Post the answer National gives you!

2)  Who is responsible for the Scouts advancement?  The Scout or the Scoutmaster?   Instead of beating ME over the head with it, and calling me names, how about if you call TEXAS.  You NEED a "Clarification of Policy" and when you get the answer, post it here!

On these two issues, because there's so much contention, if it becomes a concern for me, I'll got up the ladder. 

COMING INTO THIS FORUM, I wanted to learn one thing... do other Troops have issues with their Troop committees and how do you handle them?  I have learned that yes, it happens, but perhaps not to the extent as dysfunctional and untrained as my Troop committee is.  Misery loves company, and when you know that you are not alone, you can move toward the first step to deal with it.  Most of the advice I received in here was terrific, plenty of food for thought, and will be filed away for future use -- and for this, I thank you.

But I did learn another very important thing that I'd like to pass on... BSA does not want the boy to be held responsible for an adults misguided, although perhaps sounding logical, opinions or ideas.  They have rules and we ARE to follow them, not subtract from them or add to them, but follow them. 

If there is an area where there seems to be  toooo much room for interpretation, don't take matters into your own hands and start the interpretation merry-go-round...  You need the tower of power!  GO UP, AND UP AND UP until you find an answer that is correct.  DON't hurt that boy!

General consensus... it's best to lose the adult than the Scout.

(I've read some horrendous stories on this forum back to early 2005 on how some Scouts were hurt due to misguided adults who add requirements or redesigned the program.  I'm sure that National has an opinion and correction or "clarification of policy" for every single one... if only the Scout could return to scouting?)

AND MAY I SAY, I'm quite happy that National is concerned for just one boy and are willing to help us.  They are not TOO BIG, or too far above us to let one boy slide fall through the cracks.  (AND will speak to our District to set them straight.)

Thank you ladies and gentleman... Dozy

 

[evmori]

1) Is the MB Counselor GOD? is what he/she says or does IT? Instead of our opinions, what counts is Nationals... some people here need a "Clarification of Policy" . If the answers can't be obtained, or you have an uneasy feeling about the answer you receive at your District or even your Council Level CALL TEXAS! Don't post it here, you'll get 10 different answers. Post the answer National gives you!

 

If a registered MB counselor signs off that MB is complete, it is complete. No need to call Texas. That's a fact.

 

2) Who is responsible for the Scouts advancement? The Scout or the Scoutmaster? Instead of beating ME over the head with it, and calling me names, how about if you call TEXAS. You NEED a "Clarification of Policy" and when you get the answer, post it here!

 

The Scout is the one completing the requirement to advance therefore that makes it the Scouts responsibility. The SM is responsible for making sure the resources are available for the Scout to complete the requirements to advance. Again, no need to call Texas. How do I know? Training.

 

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Beavah]

The "Tower of Power?" I'm still rollin' on da floor laughing. Senor Lawson does have a bad habit of takin' calls from Little League moms and undermining volunteers and council officials, rather than lettin' things come in an orderly way up the chain. But even he's going to get wise the 2nd or 3rd time you call.

 

Ultimately, all scoutin' is local. National is free to give patches to whomever they want, but no volunteer is compelled to give time to your son or your family, or to any other boy for that matter.

 

If you lose very many adults, you lose the program for all boys.

[evmori]

Tower of Power had a great horn section!

[MaScout]

I thought about this overnight, then when I got on to share my thoughts, Ed beat me to it!

 

It is the SM's job to make sure a program is presented that promotes and enables advancement. It is the Scout's job to take advantage of those opportunities. The SM cannot make a Scout attend meetings or outings nor make him pay attention or learn or participate. The SM cannot "make" a Scout DO anything he doesn't have a mind to do...nor is it the SM's job to bully a Scout into doing things he doesn't want to do. (Think school here -- a teacher assigns a report for a child to write. The purpose is learning, the result is a grade. Can the teacher "make" the child write a paper that will earn an "A" the first time?)

 

Ma

[ScoutNut]

Dozy - All I can say is WOW!

 

That would be a lot of long distance phone charges if I called Texas every time someone told me something I did not agree with!

 

Who exactly is this "tower of power"? Somehow, I really doubt you have spoken with the Chief Scout Executive of the BSA.

 

I am all for following the BSA program as it has been laid out by BSA. However, I prefer to take BSA training, check BSA manuals, and communicate with the professionals & volunteers in my own local District & Council to calling National Council constantly.

 

This is what NATIONAL COUNCIL, through it's National website has to say about BOR appeals -

 

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/supplemental/18-625/index.html

 

"If the Scout is not advancing, the board should certainly give the Scout the opportunity of learning what he needs to do to advance. He should be given a definite time for a subsequent board of review. Finally he should be given information about appeal procedures."

 

and

 

"An appeal from a local board of review would be taken to the district advancement committee, and from there to the council advancement committee, and finally to the National Boy Scout Committee. When an appeal is made, the committee to whom the appeal is addressed will promptly review the facts. All parties must be interviewed by the committee, hopefully without confrontation. A written report with all details will be prepared by the reviewing committee and forwarded to the National Boy Scout Committee. Appeals to the National Boy Scout Committee are made only through the local council. There is no direct appeal."

 

From the last 2 lines you can see that National works THROUGH the local councils. Your District has decided to hold another BOR for this boy. That is a GOOD thing. They most likely have decided that the first BOR was so flawed that a new one is needed. Yet, you are still not satisfied & take it upon your self to contact National, even though literature by your "tower of power" specifically states you are NOT to do this.

 

Merit Badge Counselors - According to BSA literature, qualified, registered, trained, MBC's DO have the final say on signing off on their MB's. If a counselor is found to be truly bad, the District Advancement Committee should be contacted & told of this. It is then up to them to follow thru & decide if they want to take the counselor off of the approved MBC list or not. It the meantime the SM has the option of NOT recommending that MBC to any of the scouts in his Troop. Calling National will not change this, it is how the program is set up.

 

Who is responsible for Advancement - I do not think that a call to National for any "Clarification of Policy" is needed. In just about every piece of BSA literature that discusses the "Method of Advancement" it states -

 

http://www.scouting.org/factsheets/02-503.html

 

"The Boy Scout plans his advancement and progresses at his own pace as he meets each challenge."

 

This is directly quoted from the website of your "tower of power".

 

From what I have read, you are in a no win situation. You have stated clearly that your "old guard" will NOT change. You have also stated clearly that the "new guard" will not change. Then you state that you are not a "quitter" so you do not plan on leaving this Troop. So, the "old" & "new" end up constantly fighting with each other & trying to make points against the other side in the struggle.

 

Just where does this leave the boys that you state you do not want hurt? To it sounds like they are stuck between a rock & hard place.

 

Find a new Charter Org and start your own Troop. Bring over all of the "new guard" and their boys. Leave the "old guard", and the families that prefer them, to themselves with the old CO. This is not quitting. This is providing boys a BSA Scout program free from constant adult fighting. This is helping the BOYS get the BSA program they deserve.

 

Of course, you could always call National & ask them what they think.

 

 

[evmori]

Who exactly is this "tower of power"?

 

Here's a link with some good information.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Power

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[ScoutNut]

Oh!! THAT Tower of Power!!

 

But - They are from CA, not TX!

 

 

[evmori]

Oh!! THAT Tower of Power!!

 

But - They are from CA, not TX!

 

They tour a lot!