Eagle denial

[Jeffrey H]

Eagle candidate coming up for BOR. No one has seen him at any Troop activity since 9/05. He has a record of never assisting any other Scout with Projects and has been involved in a number of fights with other Scouts. He was fired from camp as a Leading Scout for stealing. Not an nonorable scout. Can he be denied Eagle based on this?

 

I would ask how in the world did he make it to Star and Life? Was he a "good scout" and then suddenly became a "bad scout"? Was he always a "bad scout" that was just simply given what he wanted bya lenient SM. It appears to me that this lad does not apply the vaules of scouting to his life - lots of head knowledge, but his heart is not in it.

 

[Dozy]

I say, we had two similar situations in our Troop, and in the past year. Two boys, seemingly underserving.

 

Some of you may know that our Troop committee is messed up. In this case, the new SM inheritied three life scouts. One exceptional, one marginal, and one wasted (the son of the committee chair).

 

Because our CM was not BOR trained, we messed all three of them up in one way or another. The SM was pressured on many sides, the program was halted, etc., all sorts of snafus happened, monies for events disappeared, etc., so that the wasted kid could make Eagle.

 

From 2005 to now:

 

Kid #1 had a 98% attendance record in meetings and events. An outstanding Eagle and very deserving.

 

Kid #2 had an 83% attendance record. Scout skills were good, but attitude wasn't. Attitude was worked on, Scout made a turn-around, SM made recommendation. He's now an Eagle.

 

Kid #3 had a 38% attendance record. Scout skills are practically non existent... can't tie knots, can't start a fire. Leadership skills are thumbs down... he's actually a bad example to new scouts. But he's the chairmans son, and a doctor's son.

 

All kinds of pressure has been placed on the new SM. The new SM insisted on a change in several areas. A meeting between a parent (the chairman) and 3 Committee members was held. (notice here how the EBOR will be stacked). Now, the new SM does not want to keep the boy from making Eagle, he wants the boy to meet the standards of Eagle and the standards of the Scout Law. Did I mention this boy is an OA rep?

 

Anyway, these 4 gentleman did babysitting duty for about 5 months to get this boy SM satisfied and BOR ready. Even though he just met the SM's standards, he did not exceed them. BUT, the SM decided to sign the application. We held a mock BOR and then a final BOR where he made Eagle. Actually, the BOR was impressive.

 

AND THEN CAME SUMMER CAMP.

 

I guess since the boy decided that he's now an Eagle, his true colors can come out. Although the Eagle has not yet been officially awarded or approved by National, it's in those final stages... the Eagle is a given, but the boy is a great dung artist who made Summer Camp miserable for his Troop and SM, as well as some of the camp staff.

 

The SM is currently working on an incident report because there was just too much that occurred to overlook and sweep under a rug. He must be made an example of to the boys who witnessed his un-Eagle-like behavior.

 

You say there are checks and balances? I guess there are, and a few vultures make it in the end.

 

We were told by our District Executive... basically, "the Eagle procedures are NOT designed to keep a scout from making Eagle."

 

AND "the Scoutmaster rules and the committee drools", which means, if the SM does not recommend the boy, the buck stops there. An EBOR cannot even proceed without a SM's letter.

 

OUR SM, being new and inheriting a bad situation, knew that he was not the one responsible for the boy reaching the rank he was at. Once look and even those not familiar with scouting could see that this boy was barely 1st class. So, should he be the one responsible for limiting this boy?

 

Like I said, a few months of work and intensive care by 4 adult leaders and the boy passed the barest of the SM's recommendations and BS'd his way to the top.

 

I only hope that someday, he deserves that Eagle, because it sure isn't right now.

[Beavah]

Yah, Dozy. This happens a lot, eh. I wouldn't let da SM beat him/herself up too much over it. It's just something to remember for the future.

 

A boy who lacks the skills and Scout Spirit should be given more time to work on them as a 1st Class, Star, and Life Scout. By the time a boy is looking at Eagle, there should be no surprises.

 

Sometimes a new SM is left with a problem by his predecessor, especially if (as you mention) the predecessor was gettin' burned out. Nothin' burns out adult leaders as much as upholdin' standards and expectations in the face of negative parent pressure.

 

So when you get a boy who was ill-served and badge milled up the chain, sometimes the fair thing to do is what your SM did... push to get some semblance of an Eagle, then let it go. Just remember for the future that to do our job of buildin' character, the other ranks have to mean somethin', too. Each should be a significant "step up" on the road to Eagle. If yeh make that a part of your troop culture, the kids will help you if you show you're serious. They want ranks to mean somethin', same as you do.

 

As far as the summer camp behavior goes, I think the mistake was not respondin' immediately, while the boy was at camp. Best to send him home, or if not that to have him (or maybe the whole troop) spend a day or more in "service work" to make up to the staff for his bad behavior. Delayed consequences make for a poor lesson. Dealin' with it now after da fact, an incident report is fine, but yeh still need a consequence. Dependin' on what the offense was, maybe he should not be allowed on campouts for a couple of months?

 

 

[Dozy]

Just remember for the future that to do our job of buildin' character, the other ranks have to mean somethin', too. Each should be a significant "step up" on the road to Eagle. If yeh make that a part of your troop culture, the kids will help you if you show you're serious. They want ranks to mean somethin', same as you do.

Amen to that!

Dependin' on what the offense was, maybe he should not be allowed on campouts for a couple of months?

Can't help the Scout if he isn't around. Dad wants him in, the Scout wants out. If the Scout is out, he gets what he wants. If the Scout is in, he gets to work, and the consequences are immediate.

As for Summer Camp, what I wrote was only the tip of the iceberg and happened over 4 days (Sunday to Wednesday). The remaining 2 days there was an evident change in the boy who wanted to break the SM.

Believe it or not, the SM did not get angry. (My husband, who worked with a great many youth in ministry over the years -- no pun -- has the patience of a saint.)  He used consequences and service. He reminded the Scout that he is not behaving like an Eagle nor as a proper OA rep AND it seemed to work.  There indeed WAS a change.

It seems that this by age 17, this boy had perfected his whine and had been sent home on many, double that, many, occasions, during his scouting career. The previous SM's policy was "out of sight, out of mind".  A schoolteacher who is taught to remove the boy for behavioral problems. 

This new SM feels, "if he isn't here, I can't do my job". Although this scout was a bad example to the rest of the troop, the rest of the troop needed to see that even Eagles have consequences, and that even Eagles can have incident reports.  To note... the rest of the troop in witness were not whiners and ranged in age from 11 to 16. The Eagle whiner was the oldest, but not the SPL. The 16 year old was the SPL AND also an Eagle.

[sri_oa161]

Have been asked to sit on EBOR.  Forms have been signed by Unit and SM.  Have been informed that Scout has been implicated in drug transactions lately, being looked into.

What are the options for board?  Know that vote has to be unanimous.  With all other things properly signed (SM would like to retract), the Board can turn down, then the Scout seeks appeal from Council.  Council is aware of everything and has nothing to say.

Any suggestions?

[PACAN]

Do not hold the board until these drug implications are fully flushed out.

If the board is held, you turn him down, council turns him down, national will award him.

[TAHAWK]

"2.  As a Life Scout, demonstrate Scout Spirit by living the Scout Oath and Scout Law.

 

If the fact is that the Scout was dealing drugs, he has not demonstrated complaince with the Scout Law. and is not entitled to Eagle.

 

When I became SM of a troop again in 1983, the SPL, call him "Pete,"  had passed his Eagle Board.  After the medal was pinned on him, he was caught dealing pot and X to other Scouts.   His dad was a doctor, an alcoholic, and an extremely indifferent parent.  His two older brothers were jerks.  His younger brother was a wonderful human being - kind, sensitive, and conscientious.  I saw Petet en years ago at a chuch doing landscaping work.  We exchange a few words.  He was brain-damaged from meth and living at a shelteted home.  He died a year later. at 43.  I regret his adiction and family situation.  I regret that we found out about his drug-dealing so late.  The Eagle is unfortunate, but what he potentially could have done to other Scouts was horrendous.    

 

[CynicalScouter]

26 minutes ago, sri_oa161 said:

Have been informed that Scout has been implicated in drug transactions lately, being looked into.

What proof do you have? What does "implicated" mean? Has he been arrested? If all you have is rumor, that isn't (and shouldn't) be enough.

Without more that than, you may reject him but as others said, Council and/or National will award him.

[TAHAWK]

The rise and fall of an Eagle Scout’s deadly fentanyl empire

 

https://apnews.com/article/ce51cf7c958643629bce76764f71058d/gallery/ea474d01a50747f99886abade882bf6a

$millions of dollars and piles of bodies

Shamo Sentenced To Life In Prison After Conviction For Organizing, Directing Drug Trafficking Organization

 

Distributed More Than a Half Million Fentanyl-Laced Oxycodone Pills on the Dark Net

 

[sri_oa161]

One of his buyers named him.  Several others have fingered him as the go-to for drugs in his school.  However, there has been no arrest, but law enforcement is aware.

My belief is that the EB can turn him down, but it would be a symbolic gesture.  Then council will ignore and he will get Eagle, thereby tarnishing it for others.

Unfortunate!

[MattR]

Truly is an unfortunate situation. But all you can control is your own reaction. If you don't want to sign then don't sign. I've not signed for much less. Council did sign. I'm fine with it, as I didn't sign. I hope that helps.

Best of luck.

[sri_oa161]

It's not my signature.  I'm not the SM.  The SM wishes he had not signed or could take it back.

It's really a no-win situation.

[CynicalScouter]

1 hour ago, sri_oa161 said:

One of his buyers named him.  Several others have fingered him as the go-to for drugs in his school.  However, there has been no arrest, but law enforcement is aware.

If you are sitting on the EBOR, then you are allowed to inquire if he has lived by the Scout Oath and Law.

"Would you agree that taking or dealing drugs is inconsistent with the Oath and Law?"

Don't accuse hm. Don't confront him. Just see what the reaction is.

[SSScout]

Delay the Board.  "Extenuating circumstances require we postpone the  Board of Review until . . ."  No board, no need to approve/disaprove. No need for appeal. Yet. 

[TAHAWK]

2 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

If you are sitting on the EBOR, then you are allowed to inquire if he has lived by the Scout Oath and Law.

"Would you agree that taking or dealing drugs is inconsistent with the Oath and Law?"

Don't accuse hm. Don't confront him. Just see what the reaction is.

And when he denies, denies, denies?