New Life Requirement for our Troop.

[gilski]

I am intrigued by how controversial my question is.

May I add a couple of twists for some of you?

 

As stated my sons hours were accepted, and show up on his IHR for Star. He was not proselytizing in Mexico he was building homes for the poor with the blessing of his SM.

 

The Leadership portion of the boys life requirement can be as little as two hours utilizing a couple of scouts. So it is in addition or in conjunction with the normal 6 hours. So the SM can officially approve a 6 hour service project then request another project with leadership for SMC or BOR.

 

But again I am not planning on leaving a good troop over this. However that does not make it right and no matter how you twist words or read between the lines it is adding a requirement.

 

I have a feeling some who are so strongly in favor have made a practice of this in their Adult lead troops as well.

 

 

[Lynda J]

I have a question for those that think there is nothing wrong with the adults in a troop altering a Rank requirement.

So we change the Life requirement from take part in to lead.

 

On what is to say that a leader can't then take Tenderfood and decide that they have to do spend at least three nights camping. Oh you are camping anyway so why not increase the number of nights required since we are trying to teach the boys how to camp.

 

Or for 1st Class require them to take part in 20 troop activities.

 

BSA Policy is VERY clear on this. The SM nor the CO or the committee can not change a requirement. Period. No discussion.

Believe me if I was associated with a troop that required my son to LEAD a project when the requirement very clearly stated take part in. I would be talking to Council.

[evmori]

So the SM can officially approve a 6 hour service project then request another project with leadership for SMC or BOR.

 

He can request anything he wants but making it a requirement is not allowed. If the SM approves a service project for rank & the Scout completes it and puts in the required time for rank, the Scout has completed the requirement.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[LongHaul]

Gilski,

I hope you can understand the difference between what your SM can do and what he is authorized to do within the guide lines of the program. In your last post you make two statements which I would like to address. The first is your statement So it is in addition or in conjunction with the normal 6 hours. The word addition, by definition makes the SMs action unauthorized. However the phrase in conjunction with puts him back on safe ground. If its in addition its unauthorized, if its in conjunction with it could fall under the SMs decision as to whether the SM will approve the project of not. The second statement is So the SM can officially approve a 6 hour service project then request another project with leadership for SMC or BOR. This, the SM is specifically forbidden to do. Once the SM approves a project and the scout completes the approved project the requirement is finished. The SM can refuse to approve projects which dont show leadership but Im sure all of the forum members will agree that requiring an additional project is unauthorized. I think all forum members will agree that after approving a project the SM upon completion of the project by the scout should consider the requirement fulfilled. Whether you leave the troop over this is your decision but whether the scouts can take the SM at his/her word is something else. In approving the project the SM has entered into an agreement with the scout, breaking that agreement for whatever reason, except that the scout failed to complete his end of the deal, is something an adult should never do. On my Honor should permeate the scouting experience. One of the common explanations of A Scout is Trustworthy is that a scout can be taken at his word. To me the breach of faith with your son is way more important than the breach of policy.

LongHaul

 

[evmori]

The Leadership portion of the boys life requirement can be as little as two hours utilizing a couple of scouts. So it is in addition or in conjunction with the normal 6 hours. So the SM can officially approve a 6 hour service project then request another project with leadership for SMC or BOR.

 

In addition or in conjunction is still adding to the requirements. If the requirement is for the Scout to participate in 6 hours of service projects, requiring leadership in any form is adding to the requirements!

 

This ain't rocket science!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Lynda J]

Kevin (13 and Life) and I talked about this last night. This thread has been looking at it from the point of a SM adding a requiement.

He ask me what happens when a SM decided that a Scout doens't have to do a requirement because the SM think the the requirement is to hard for that Scout. Like not expecting him to learn First Aid the SM signs off as long as the boy known how to put on a bandaid? Have we been fair to that Scout. NO!!!!

 

If we allow SM or CO to alter Advancement requirements by making the reqirement harder or by making it easier we havedone a hugh disservice to that boy. The BSA policies are there to make sure that the program is a uniform as it can possibly be. That is way they state that a Scout must "do no more but no less."

SO from the mind of a Life Scout any alteration on a requirement is wrong. Whether you add a requirement or don't expect a Scout to do one. You aren't being fair to the boy either way.

 

I will be leaving for summer camp in the morning and will be interested in seeing where this thread goes.