Reneging on SM Conference

[MaScout]

The depression only plays a role in that I am not pressing charges -- yes, he should "pay" for his theft, but at risk of suicide, I think not. $300 is NOT worth his life.

 

I really like what Double Eagle had to say about eagles in the wild...nice analogy & it helps put things inperspective. Thanks.

 

The boy gave the same money back. He still had it on him. He took it because he could. (Feathers drooping so they drag on the ground.) He didn't need it. He stood up in front of the troop and confessed to the entire troop, which I thought was gutsy. (His choice to tell them.) He cried the entire time, which is tough for a young man to do in front of peers. He was a PL, (former SPL) & resigned from that position. We are making slow steps, but will weather this out one way or the other...I pray for his growth.

 

Ma

[scoutldr]

One sermon has stuck with me over the years. It's not enough to confess and say you're sorry to gain forgiveness. You have to REPENT, which means changing the bad behavior and never doing it again. Only time will tell if there was true repentance.

 

The young man made restitution, publicly apologized and showed genuine contrition. What else do we expect him to do to make it right before he turns 18? In my mind the question of "Is he Eagle material?" requires more information than we have been given. Is there a pattern of anti-scoutlike behavior, or is this an isolated lapse in judgment?

 

[sst3rd]

Once signed, the requirements are completed. Yes, the next place to catch all of this is at the Board of Review.

 

When ADD and similar labels became attached to negative behaviors and medication was despensed, I was told by a Scout's parent that I had (the Scoutmaster) to deal with her son whether he behaved or not on Scout activities, because he had an illness. I told her that I begged to differ. If her Scout does not apply himself to a certain level of responsibility (medicated or not), he was not welcome on those Scouting functions. Period. No arguments. And yes, since I'm responsible for the safety of all of the Scouts on these Troop activities, I get to set that level.

 

As scoutldr said, we just aren't aware of all of the details to this complicated situation. I'll stop there.

 

I trust MaScout in her evaluation of this Scout, and it sounds as if it has, and will continue to be, reviewed and supported to the best interest of this Scout. But let's not forget the disruption of the Troop and Patrol programs. Resolve it NOW, or it will tear down your program. Yes, speaking from experiences.

 

sst3rd

[John-in-KC]

First, Ma, run, do not walk, to your telephone or computer. Contact your District Advancement Chair before the sun sets!!! Ask him to contact the Council Advancement Chair

 

You can stop this Scout from going forward to an Eagle BOR. Lay out your reasons clearly and succinctly. His remorse, and his giving back the money, needs to go on the table as well.

 

The Advancement Chairs are the people who will work any appeals from your level. Getting them informed, and having them assist you in cleaning up this mess is a win for you and Scouting.

 

Next, the SM has direct input into the BOR ... it's called the Scoutmaster evaluation. If he says "I cannot recommend this Scout, he has demonstrated himself not trustworthy...." it's going to go a long way to an Eagle BOR not happening.

 

A Board of Review can happen at any time. It is not simply for advancement. One way to get this young man's attention is to begin the BOR, but clearly state "we are here to consider your trustworthiness as a Scout. Your candidacy to Eagle is not on the table at this time."

 

There are three other people who need to be brought into this sad loop:

- First, the unit commissioner, so when Mom/Dad complain to the DC or the DE, the issue is already on the table.

- The other two are the Chartered Partner Executive Officer and the COR. You do not need the parents making a run around the SM/CC there either.

 

Edited to reflect a later post from Ma...(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[nldscout]

This is why we have police, courts, probation departments and Jails.

 

You should have hung tough and pressed charges, let the chips fall where they may.

[nldscout]

This is why we have police, courts, probation departments and Jails.

 

You should have hung tough and pressed charges, let the chips fall where they may.

[Lisabob]

respectfully disagreeing w/ nldscout...

 

In some cases that might be appropriate. In others it might be overkill. I'm not pardoning a boy for stealing $300 just because the opportunity arose to do so. I'm suggesting that the justice system is, ah, quirky and sometimes metes out punishments, the effects of which are out of all proportion to the crime (mandatory minimum guidelines, notoriously poor health care for prisoners with pre-existing medical problems or mental illnesses, treating juveniles like the worst violent adult prisoners, etc.).

 

Such a situation might do more harm than good. In some cases it might make more sense to deal with problems within the family/unit/community first, when possible, rather than go that route. And I would have to trust MaScout, who presumably has known this boy for a long time (he's a life scout remember and from other posts Ma apparently lives in a very small town so people probably know each other's business) to make that judgment.

 

Now, if this young man had a habit of doing these things and/or was caught doing something similar AGAIN, then maybe...but I don't think a one-size-fits-all approach is necessarily the best one here.

 

Lisa'bob

[Double Eagle]

Gotta disagree on the courts, police, and probation standpoint. Having a police background, I see it handled as it should for all parties. The eagle is small compared to a conviction. We all did dumb things at 18 or before. We like to enforce the intent of the law not necessarily the letter of the law. Rolling through a stopsign at 4:30AM has a slight risk than the same offense at 4:30PM. With that said, this could have been $20 - $2000. The issue was he stole, then felt sorry (after being caught, not before), and should he be accepted as an Eagle. No, but the courts would probably do the same thing as the troop with sentencing being probation. I've seen robbers get 5 years of probation for holding up a store. It would tie up the courts, police and probably scare the rest of the scouts into thinking what if they do a dumb thing too. I like the thought of the troop keeping the human dimension piece as the "how to handle" solution.

[nldscout]

Sorry,

But this young man committed a CRIME. So what , now all the scouts think,Gee if I do something wrong all I have to do is say "Sorry" and all is ok.

 

I have to tell you as A JUdge I see this all the time a kid does things and no one wants to do anything.

 

Again I say this is why we have courts for.

[t158sm]

Nldscout:

It is totally within Ma's discretion if to pursue legal recourse or not. She is the one involved with the Scout and the situation. Ma feels that this situation can best be handled without judicial involvement. She has chosen not to have a warrant taken out, the matter should continue to be dealt with internally.

IMHO Ma, you could have an officer talk to this young man about the ramifications of his actions though.

[evmori]

I can see both sides here. By not turning this Scout over to the authorities we are sorta saying "it's OK" and if we do turn this kid over to the authorities we might destroy a good kid. Tough call.

 

I might give his name to the authorities since the amount he stole was sizable. I also think having a law enforcement officer talk to this kid is a good idea.

 

As far as Scouting, his advancement would stop. He would be on a probationary period of at least 6 months as nothing more than a regular Scout of Life rank. Now if he turns 18 during this time, oh well! He made the choice to steal. He now has the consequences to deal with! And isn't Scouting about helping boys make ethical & moral decisions?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[MaScout]

Another post before I run off to play again...I've been gone fishing. Next I'm off to a college graduation, then to see my niece at Lake Powell. I wonder if I'll be in total withdrawal by the time I get back to this forum?

 

Lots of good ideas here. Thanks to all for taking the time to post your thoughts.

 

District & Council Advancement Chairs have been apprised of the situation, as has UC & DC, COR & IH. I think it would be a good idea to have a law enforcement officer speak with the lad. I have told him what could happen, but do think the police would have much more of an impact.

 

This boy does NOT have a history of such behavior. It appears to be out of the blue & an isolated incident. I believe this will put a stop to the behavior, as long as it is handled severely enough. I'm looking for that fine line between growth & destruction... With this boy it could go either way. Sure, if I pressed charges, he wouldn't get his Eagle & he'd certainly learn a lesson. But I'm not sure that is the lesson I want him to learn. Perhaps (and this is the route I am taking unless I can be convinced otherwise) he will learn that what he did was stupid & could have resulted in terrible consequences, but that there IS some forgiveness for error in this world, as long as there is REPENTANCE. For that, we'll have to wait & see. Dad wants to know how long until he is considered. The boy is only 15. (I've known him since he was 5.) I said I felt a minimum of 6 months, and then I'd have to see if I felt I could endorse him.

 

He considered joining another troop to complete his Eagle. I told him that was fine, but he needed to remember several things: he needed 6 months active in that troop before he could move on AND I know all the SM's in our District...they'd be asking me why he changed troops, and I would tell them. Regardless, the DAC & CAC also knew, and would most likely not advance him until I had given the nod that I thought he earned the right to advance & could wholeheartedly endorse him for Eagle. He has decided to stay.

 

I do not intend for it to be a cakewalk. I want to see some positive growth. I want him to attend JLTC. I want him to demonstrate positive leadership within the troop. I want to watch long enough to assure this IS a one-time event. I want the other Scouts to see he didn't just "get away with it", but has to do SOMETHING to deserve my trust.

 

His advancement IS stalled out. It will resume when/if I feel I can recommend him to the Board of Review.

[evmori]

Excellent job, MaScout! It sounds like you are doing the right thing. Now get back to fishing & enjoy the holiday.

 

Thanks to all those who fought so we could be free.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10