troop's OWN requirements for advancement... allowed?

[Cubmaster Randy]

I don't see the issue in having to go to a Life to Eagle seminar. This is not really an added reqirement but part of the entire process. By going to the seminar the scout can fully understand what is expected of them. Our District has established several guidelines of its own for Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Proposals. These are intended to help the Eagle candidate plan and execute the project in a way that is consistent with BSAs Safe Scouting principles.

 

 

I've heard somewhere if you go skydiving, it is highly recommended that you wear a parachute!

[OldGreyEagle]

As a member of the Disrict Advancement Committee, I understand the value of the Life to Eagle Seminar, I put them on. Scouts who attend these seminars are much more familiar with the process, tend to have less redo's and not as much work on the redo of their Project application because they know what is expected of them. But we don't make them mandatory. If the scout doesnt attend and faces several attempts at getitng his project approved and his buddy attends anf has no problems, maybe the importance of preparation is learned.

 

I think it would be aonderful if every Star/Life scout attended the seminar, but just because its a wonderful idea doesnt make it proper to add as a requirement. We may all agree its ok to make attendance mandatory because, well heck its a great idea. Then someone says that it would really help the scout skills of the council if all Eagle candidates had to earn the Pioneering merit badge, which is the most boy scouty of all merit badges, and heck thats a great idea as well and who could argue against it. And in todays society, every Eagle candidate earns the Emergency Prep whether or not they also earn the Livesaving merit badge.

 

At what point do good intentions warp the program beyonf recognition?

[OldEagle4Life]

Exactly!

 

The road to hell......

[Beavah]

What ticks me off is the fact that the week before these posters speaches were due they had a drug/alcohol seminar at the troop with a local representative. So they fulfilled this requirement.

 

Well, no. They had apparently participated in part 1 of the requirement. This "troop program on the dangers of alcohol and drugs" had a part 2, which was to make a poster. It's the troop's program, they can decide what it consists of. If your son did a school or community program, it very well might entail making a presentation or writing a report (which may also be judged on quality).

 

My feeling on the poster/speach wasn't so much that they were asked to do it but that they were "judged" on how good it was.

 

Hmmm... Then I guess you have a lot of problem wit da whole scoutin' program, eh? Most rank requirements are judged on quality, or should be. "Splint a broken limb" means to splint a broken limb effectively, not just make an attempt.

 

Relax. The very temporary disappointment won't bother your kid half as much as your fretting about it. You admit you've got an overall good troop adult leader. Trust and support.

 

As far as da other stuff like Eagle seminars, it always amazes me how many leaders take "not adding or subtracting from the requirements" more seriously than any of the other advancement policies or procedures... so much so that they often try to trump the Aims and Goals. If it helps the kid, it strikes me as a good thing, and certainly not somethin' to get my dander up over.

 

 

[anarchist]

folks,

 

how do you folks see an added requirement in the drug program issue?

 

The BSA requirement says school, community or troop program...sounds like they have a "troop program" working here...so I think Acco, molscouter and beavah are "spot on"... and offer much better advice...I keep hearing the "off with their heads" refrain in the background...

 

or is it the SMs seeming desire to see/or motivate better/higher work from the boy that is "conflicting" so many posters...?

 

I can't help but continually wonder at folks who seem (anyway) to want the dumbed down version of everything fed to their children ...so they don't have to strive...or sweat for a single minute and wonder as well at folks who continually brand every SM who does something a parent doesn't like, understand or agree with an "ANTI BSA TWIT"...

 

Personally, I want my kids challenged...Perhaps the reason oldest made eagle and stayed with the program through 18 was it was a challenge and varied and exciting...and not the same old same old...

 

If the requirement says "learn a knot and teach the knot and demonstrate the knot"...I guess we should sign off if they don't complete the knot? or complete the requirements? Just go through it as "best they can"...gets them the sign off? What should the standard be?

Again, roses to Acco, molscouter and beavah...and maybe a bunch of golden rod to the seeming "lynch mob".(?)

 

"...and who shall judge the judges?"

 

anarchist

[mom2scouts]

WOAH anarchist! I NEVER said I wanted it dumbed down to fit my kid! MY CHILD is in the GIFTED AND CHALLENGE program and has a very high IQ SO NO he does NOT need it dumbed down to him! I'll tell you this I do NOT fight everything the SM says or does and there is alot I do NOT agree with. BUT at the same time he is the SM! I DO NOT want the job!

I just think it's silly to make the kid do it again when he already did it... he did a job that he thought and I thought was adequate... YES he could have done a better job... but it wasn't like he did nothing or it was NOT up to par... but yet it was NOT up to par for his abilities... but for another child it may have been just fine. I DO NOT want it dumbed down for my kid... My oldest son is sitting at turning 15 in a few short weeks and is beginning the trail of eagle. Ready to get his project underway! He has been a CIT at summer camp and is currently holding the position of sr. patrol leader... so my kids are not ones who need it dumbed down to them... I take great offense that you would even think or type such a thing!

[Beavah]

MY CHILD is in the GIFTED AND CHALLENGE program and has a very high IQ

 

Then if it were me, I'd be sending the SM a gift certificate to his favorite restaurant as a "thankyou" for trying to hold my kid to the standards he should be reaching.

[evmori]

If the Troop program is to make a poster, then the Scout met the requirement. If the SM doesn't like the poster, tough!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Lisabob]

I have this conversation with my son on occasion regarding school projects that require any kind of artistic endeavor (which he just despises - I don't know why, since he's actually pretty good). They tend to go like this.

 

Son: OK I'm done.

Me: Great, can I have a look?

Son: mdhgjsmmmbd (non-commital mumbling)

Me: Hmm, tell me about this.

Son: well I had to (draw/color/paint/make a collage/etc) so I did.

Me: I see. You've got one small (whatever type of art is required here) thing on the paper. Do you think that's what your teacher is looking for?

Son: I met the exact requirement. I don't want to do more.

Me: OK, and will you be happy when you get a C or D for this project? (minimally acceptable = D in his school). Do you think your teacher will feel you put much effort into this project? Tell me what you learned as part of doing this project.

Son: No, and No and Not Much.

Me: OK then you have a choice to make.

Son: (grumbling, usually goes back and improves things to a respectable point - and is nearly always glad he did, later on)

 

Somewhere along the way I hope he's learning that a) doing the bare minimum and slipping through is possible but usually not desirable and b) you just might learn something more - even interesting - by adding a little extra effort.

 

If this SM is just on a power trip then that's one thing. If your son worked long and hard to come up with the poster he made and HE really feels badly about how the SM treated him and his work, then HE should respectfully ask for a discussion with the SM. In this case, your best bet is probably to provide some gentle hints on how to go about having that respectful conversation.

 

On the other hand, if he slapped it together with minimal effort - as my son is fond of doing sometimes - and he got called on it, then he probably isn't feeling half as irritated as you are. If he isn't sure what else he ought to do, maybe you can point him (again) toward a respectful conversation with the SM. Chances are good he can take what he already has and add a few things to it, rather than starting from scratch.

 

There may be a good opportunity for you to talk with the SM later on, when it doesn't revolve directly around your son getting something approved for rank advancement (lower tension, better results). The SM may have had the best intentions here but not realized that he appears to be setting a double standard. And yes, appearances are important. In that case, perhaps gently pointing that out and suggesting some constructive ways for approaching this situation in the future (ie, clear written guidelines re: the troop's program requirements for this sign-off) would be helpful and even welcomed. All the more so if you're in a position where you can offer to help with this in the future.

 

Lisa'bob

 

[evmori]

The problem I have with the SM telling the Scout the poster isn't good enough is there is no requirement as to how good it has to be. Scouting isn't school. There are no A, B, C, etc. The requirements are worded "Participate in, Discuss, Demonstrate, etc". Sure a Scout is to do his best. And that should be encouraged and emphasized at all times. But telling a Scout "this isn't good enough do it over" for a requirement that states "participate in" is just a power trip and wrong.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10