Camping MB when do you start counting?

[anarchist]

F Scouter...the Requirement does not say you can use a week long camp in a cabin...You have showed nothing from BSA besides your interpritation that denotes a cabin camp acceptance...it says you can use a week long camp... and I still think it excludes "pitching the tent" tent not avoiding a tent...

 

this is an outdoor organization...Yes? (or ) NO? What purpose would be served encouraging the use of cabins...? Particularly in a merit badge aimed at showing camping experience...can you really look in the mirror and say cabin camping is camping outside (with a straight fase that is?)

 

The "inculsion" of "extended camps" can/may encourage summercamp camping ...in tents.. and even then, note it limits that use to a week! So they are not trying too hard to "encourage" summercamp in this Merit Badge...try again?

 

Question ...is there a scout (boy scouts)camp in the country that has a summer cabin camp (not just cabins for winter use) but a long term summer camp 'cabin' operation? anyone?

anarchist

[FScouter]

Put a comma or semi-colon after "sky" and it would be clear that the exception applies only to the tent. As it is without punctuation to set off "tent" it is grammatically correct that the parenthetical exception applies to both sky and to tent.

 

As Hunt says, it's really a moot point inasmuch as few if any Scout camps provide cabins for campers. Of course if tenting in one's living room is considered a long-term camp, that's another matter.

[msnowman]

Anarchist asks if there are any Scout camps that use cabins. Well, perhaps that depends on your defination of a cabin. Camp Roosevelt, the Scout Camp for the Katahdin Area Council has tents and Adirondaks. An Adirondak, at our Scout Camp is a structure with 3 wooden sides, a screened in front, a shingled roof, solid wooden floor (as opposed to the pallets that the tents are set on in the tent sites), 4 bunks, a screen door and no electricity. These are used year round at KSR (Katahdin Scout Reservation) and not just during Cub Camp/Pal & Me. About 1/2 or so of the sites at KSR have these structures. The most popular thing about them seem to be the fewer number of mosquitos. If those are cabins, then yes, at least one Council uses cabins year round at Scout camp.

 

ETA - During the winter there is still plenty of tent camping going out at KSR. When our Web II's went out to visit at Chillout last February, there were a large number of groups using tents.

 

Michelle(This message has been edited by msnowman)

[evmori]

What the requirement states is if you use a week of long term camping, the pitching your own tent requirement is waived. Other than that, to fulfill the requirement the Scout must "Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched".

 

What is so tough to understand about this? And according to your interpretation, FScouter, the Troop could go to the Holiday Inn & that would count! I guess room service would count toward the meal planning part, too!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[FScouter]

So, how 'bout them Dodgers?!

[nldscout]

I think the problem is that the wording for this hasn't changed in many many years. When it was wrote summer camps didn't have cabins, lean-to's, adirondacks or other permanant structures.

 

Our camp has several sites with these. The reason they have been converting is they are far cheaper in the long run than tents that are expensive, leak and don't last long.

[dan]

It looks like I have been using the old requirment. As far as I can tell it changed last year. I guess the thread have helped me even with all of the banner.

[Hunt]

Let's think about these Adirondacks tht msnowman described. Put one beside a large tent that stays up all summer and that has a permanent wooden floor under it and bunks. I'd have to say that sleeping in the Adirondack is a little less "camping" than the tent. But it would seem unfair to me to give the boy sleeping in one credit for a week of long term camp, and not the other. There's really no difference in what they've done. I wouldn't split hairs over that. My discomfort level would rise if there really was true cabin camping, with beds, sheets, private bath, etc.

[evmori]

Put a comma or semi-colon after "sky" and it would be clear that the exception applies only to the tent. As it is without punctuation to set off "tent" it is grammatically correct that the parenthetical exception applies to both sky and to tent.

 

I guess it's back to reading 101!

 

1. Camp a total of at least 20 days and nights.

I don't think there is a problem with this.

 

You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement.

This seems pretty straight forward, too.

 

Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched (long-term camp excluded).

This is where we have the disagreement. The only time the Scout isn't required to sleep under the sky on in a tent he has pitched is if the Scout is using a long-term camp as part of the required 20 days and nights. Otherwise, the Scout must

Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched. And the only way cabin camping should be counted (other than long-term camp) is if the cabin has no roof! Should be simple for most to understand.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Hunt]

Ed, I think if you'll look back, nobody is disagreeing with that--the only disagreement is whether cabin camping AT long-term camp should count. If you like, though, we can talk about caves again.

[Eagle76]

Camp Royaneh of the San Francisco Bay Area Council mostly has 2-man platform tents. However, one campsite consists of six 8-man cabins, which is used by the largest troops. (A couple other campsites may also have the cabins.) The cabins are square, with walls that go halfway up. No door, just a gap in the wall.

 

In my opinon, scouts from troops assigned to these cabins should be able to count their long-term camp toward the Camping MB requirements.

[Eagle76]

Well, I wasn't going to get into the grammatical syntax arguement, but I changed my mind.

 

1. Camp a total of at least 20 days and nights. You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement. Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched (long-term camp excluded).

 

To me, if you take the last sentence and form the the converse, it would be: For long-term camp you do not need to sleep under the sky or in a tent you have pitched.

 

BTW, note only one week of long-term camp counts.

[SR540Beaver]

I think the original question was when do you start couting nights? It depends on who the SM or MBC is. My son has been in Boy Scouts for 22 months now. He has camped in a tent for 57 nights. That is with a troop and does not include family camping. Granted, part of that is 2 summer camps and Jamboree. He took Camping MB at summer camp and the MBC counted his past camping nights. Our current SM says that within the troop, they start counting when you get the blue card. I'm glad he did it prior to joining this troop. I'd hate telling a kid with 57 nights under his belt that he is going to have to wait about 10 months to get this MB.

[acco40]

Has anyone out there not slept "under the sky" at all? No, response by astronauts accepted!

 

The determination should be made by the MBC. Attend summer camp (week of long term - say 6 nights), plus two night a month - seven months so a Scout with a year of experience should be able to easily fulfill this req. Even if the MBC wanted the boy to start after beginning the blue card (and believing the req means "as a boy scout" is just as arbitrary as believing "after starting this merit badge") the Scout should be able to complete within one year.

 

Now, to add more controversy, does anyone else besides me interpret "Prepare for an overnight campout with your patrol by doing the following:

1) Make a checklist of personal and patrol gear that will be needed.

 

2) Prepare a camp menu that is right for backpacking. Give recipes and make a food list for your patrol. Plan two breakfasts, three lunches, and two suppers. Discuss how to protect your food against bad weather, animals, and contamination.

3) Pack your own gear and your share of the patrol equipment and food for proper carrying. Show that your pack is right for quickly getting what is needed first, and that it has been assembled properly for comfort, weight, balance, size, and neatness." as requiring a patrol (NOT troop) outing? Or, at the least, requiring the patrol to go out on their own for one day (backpacking)? to me, that is the intent of the req.

[AvidSM]

Look at the camping merit badge and what do you see? A tent! Not a cabin, not a cave, not a adarondak and not a Holiday Inn.

 

You cannot read more into a requirement then what's actually there. Nowhere in the requirement does it mention: "cabin" or "adarondak" or any other of these things. It says sleeping outdoors with no shelter counts (under the stars) or sleeping outdoors in a tent you have pitched counts. It says nights of summer (long-term) camp also count in an outdoor tent. And, since the tents in a summer camp are already pitched when you get there, they are excluded from the "you have pitched" part of the requirement.

 

The scoutmaster has no say in when to start counting these days and nights camping. Once he signs the blue card giving his OK for the boy to start work, it's then all up to the councelor who may or may not choose to count the previous days and nights. All the boys I know who have gotten the merit badge were allowed to count all their camping while they were a boy scout. To me, it does not make any sense otherwise. Things don't count until you fill out a form? It's BOY Scouts not GOVERNMENT WORKER Scouts!