What is 'Active" ?

[anarchist]

Active...don't ya love it!

 

As the Bad boy of the week I'd like to jump in here...

If I vote once in a while, am I policically active?

If I watch Sunday football, eat wings, drink beer and scream alot...even toss a ball around occaisionally, am I active in sports?

If I drive though town back and forth to work each day am I active in my community?

If I go to church occaisionally, am I active in my Church?

 

So why then , if my troop schedules 45 meetings, 12 camps and a 5 service projects every year, and I make only a few of them... am I to be considered an active scout? 50% sure seems reasonable to me.

 

If I miss 50% of my sports practices or band practices I am out. If I miss 50% of my work I have no job. If I miss 50% of my classes I fail. If miss 50% of my guard drills I'm in trouble (unless I a Bush).

 

If the BSA Charter agreement says the responcibility of the CO is to encourage active participation in an outdoor program why is it wrong to set some troop activity participation limits?

 

Why should our boys who spend 7 or 8 years hiking, camping, sweating, teaching, sharing and striving have to contend with a "paper puncher" who does the minimum requirements and is never around...unless it directly affects his advancement? why shouldn't they know and expect that each scout will participate fully in the program rather than minimally?

 

Unit spirit is bred and strengthened by its members facing the same challenges, sharing in the same trials and succeeding together. Allowing the "slick willy" to short change the troop program damages team building and patrol/troop identity.

 

Years and Years ago in a Star BoR the candidate ask me to explain how a boy, who had never been seen by, quite literally, half the troop, could drop back into the troop (after two years awol) for a few weeks to "do" an eagle project and "earn his Eagle"...To him it was not fair...Where was this boy when the younger scouts needed a mentor? Where was the boy when the boys needed help on campouts? Where was this boy when we were doing service projects? How was it fair that he could get his Eagle and not participate in the troop activities...I talked and talked trying to explain "not adding or subtracting" requirement but I never convinced the young scout that what the troop did giving the young man his Eagle was right...somehow "following the BSA rules" just didn't cut it as an answer.

 

Active is more than a word and I have doubts about leaving it to the scout to determine his own answer as to being active enough for rank advancement(as much as I love the idea of the wonderful theory of 'asking' the boy if he thinks he was "active" at his SM conference)...I have serious doubts if a boy with the brass to ask for a SM conference when he has not been active will answer "honestly", having just witnessed an eagle candidate self-destruct after building his own "house of lies".

 

 

And Love ya OGE as much as I do...boys/parents can shop for troops...and they do... some like merit badge mills, some like eagle mills, some like hard working troops with challenging outdoor programs...As long as going in everyone knows the rules...then yes, telling a boy that he was not active enough for advancement in your troop is fair...if he wants a B.S. eagle...let him find a B.S. troop and program.

 

Right now I am truely in pain because my youngest has just dropped out of scouting...he told his mom that he didn't want to be a scout any more because so many scouts he knew in school (other programs) were getting rank and merit badges for showing up and having a pulse...and in his opinion scout ranks were therefore a joke... so why should he have to work for it...it was working for nothing...( BTW this one is really lazy... great scout skills and was an excellent guide but if breathing wasn't automatic he'd stop because its to much effort)Scouting cuts into his computer gaming...

even now however, I would still not change our program to a "feel good - hand out the ranks for breathing" one...just to keep him or any boy in the program. Active is Active not just being around.

just rambling along...

gh

[evmori]

Excellent post anarchist! Great points! Thanks for sharing! I feel for ya! Anything I can do?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[acco40]

As Scoutmaster for our troop, I'm in charge of the advancement program. With that responsibility I think it is very important that I define what active means. I don't do that in a vacuum, but what is most important is the boys know what is expected. This is how I handle it in our troop and I openly welcome others comments.

 

For the ranks of Star, Life, and Eagle a requirement of be active exists. What does be active mean? It goes beyond just being registered. It means that you are an active, contributing member of your Patrol and Troop. This requirement is explained in The Boy Scout Handbook, pg 169 as TO GAIN FULL ADVANTAGE of all Scouting has to offer, you need to be present when things are happening. Take part in meetings, in planning activities, and in the fun of adventures. If youre there, you can do your part to make your patrol and troop a success. However, it does not state specific attendance levels.

 

Maybe you are very active in the Order of the Arrow, attending all functions and even serving in a leadership capacity. Your unit leader may not accept that as meeting the participation requirement. Likewise, you may be serving on camp staff all summer and busy during the fall with the start of school, sports, and/or a job. But, if you are not being a participating member, leader and example in your patrol and troop, your unit leader may not accept your performance for this requirement.

So what do you do if life has you running a hundred miles an hour? Talk to your Scoutmaster. To avoid disappointment, find out what he sees as acceptable performance before you start working on these ranks. If necessary, use those leadership skills you're developing to negotiate an acceptable arrangement.

 

Generally, to advance, you must participate as follows for the designated 4 or 6 month period:

Weekly Meetings: you must participate in more than half of the weekly troop meetings.

Campouts: you must participate in more than half of the campouts/outings.

Other Troop Activities (parades, fundraisers, service projects, PLC meetings, etc.): you must participate in at least half of these activities.

 

Again, if you cannot meet these participation requirements, for your own benefit, discuss your situation with the Scoutmaster before, not after the fact.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Anarchist, I feel the love every time I log on here and I view you as a brother, the one I dont talk to, much

 

Anyway, the point I was going for, and is reflected on many threads is that the requirements for Eagle are supposed to be national standards not breached by local whims. There are not supposed to be Eagle mills and there are not supposed to be super extreme tough troops, there are just supposed to be troops where the Boy Scout program is presented.

[Eamonn]

Amen to that!!

Eamonn (Yes it's spelled different!)

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Olf Grey Eagle---

 

 

Yes, Scouting has national rules for advancement. But it is also a program owned by each chartering organization as well. Scout Troops develope their own personalities, culture and standards, and that is acceptable within certain limits. I have no problem with District Advancement Committees who play a duel role in trying to maintain reasonable standards for Eagle as a challenge to the Eagle Mill troops and also moderating Troops that may throw unreasonable burdens in front of Scouts. It's a balancing act that must require good judgement and a steely spine.

 

Frankly, I get tired by seeing so many parents and Scout leaders carrying boys into the Eagle's nest. It also makes me tired to see parents who zealously seek to give the Heir Apparent every possible advantage in advancement, while often ignoring other boys in a troop who need help to get to First Class.

 

What we really need in this thread are some people who have sat of strict Eagle advancement committees to tell us of the goals they try to achieve, and the kinds of challenges Scout Troops present them with.

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

[Hunt]

"Anyway, the point I was going for, and is reflected on many threads is that the requirements for Eagle are supposed to be national standards not breached by local whims. There are not supposed to be Eagle mills and there are not supposed to be super extreme tough troops, there are just supposed to be troops where the Boy Scout program is presented."

 

I totally agree with this--but the tendency of some people to go to one extreme or the other is enabled, to some degree, by vague standards. You won't find troops (I hope) requiring 30 MBs for Eagle, or allowing a boy to make Eagle with only 10. That's because the standard given to us for the number of MBs is clear. That simply isn't the case for some other requirements like "active."

 

[FScouter]

It would be grand if Scouting could be run like a computer program. Process boys like records in a file using if-then/else statements, subroutines, loops, and calculations. What would the flow chart for Scouting look like? Incredibly complex.

 

People are more complicated than a computer program. Standards are vague because it is impossible to completely nail some things down. Like active. Part of being an adult leader is using our brains to meet the standards that seem vague. Surely we can all agree that boys should be involved somehow in the Scouting program, and that being involved in Scouting means achieving the aims of Scouting and fulfilling the mission of Scouting.

 

Some ways to be involved:

Attend meetings

Attend activities

Attend campouts

Participate in service projects

Help another Scout learn a skill

Perform the duties of a leadership position

Do good turns

Live the Scout Oath and Law every day

Tell another boy about Scouting

Invent a new dutch oven recipe

Help build a chuck box

Make phone calls to other Scouts reminding them of the next outing.

Keep physically fit

Complete requirements for rank advancement

Attend church

Participate in community activities

 

All of these things contribute to being a Scout. Any action no matter how minor, that contributes to achieving the three aims of Scouting, character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness, must be considered an action that constitutes being active.

 

Take a few minutes and you can probably think of 100 more examples of ways a boy can be active.

 

Attending meetings and outings is certainly part of being active, but lets not discount 100 other ways to be active. That is why standards are sometimes seen as being vague.

[Hunt]

I'm sorry, you cannot simultaneously advocate a broad and undefined meaning of "active" and criticize people who define it differently from you. And Fscouter, by no stretch of interpretation can some of the things you listed be part of "active in your troop and patrol." Attending church certainly is following part of the Scout Oath and Law, but it is hardly being active "in your troop and patrol." Look, if you want to defend the idea that "active" means "registered," just come out and say so. Or, if you think a boy's idea of what "active" means is the sole determinant, say that. If neither of those is your interpretation, then perhaps you can give us an example of a situation in which you would decline to sign off a boy as "active" even though he tells you he thinks he was.

[evmori]

Let's look at this list:

 

Some ways to be involved:

Attend meetings

Attend activities

Attend campouts

 

These are part of active.

 

Participate in service projects

Help another Scout learn a skill

Perform the duties of a leadership position

 

These are parts of active, too.

 

Do good turns

 

While these are admirable, they have nothing to do with being "active in your Troop and Patrol".

 

Live the Scout Oath and Law every day

 

Again, while admirable, not necessarily being "active in your Troop and Patrol".

 

Tell another boy about Scouting

 

Recruiting. That's active!

 

Invent a new dutch oven recipe

 

Good but not necessarily active.

 

Help build a chuck box

Make phone calls to other Scouts reminding them of the next outing.

 

Active.

 

Keep physically fit

 

Physically active, but active in your Troop & Patrol - I don't think so.

 

Complete requirements for rank advancement

 

Yep active.

 

Attend church

 

Active for the Scout's church not in his Troop and Patrol. Remember, church attendance is not a requirement to do duty to God or be reverent!

 

Participate in community activities

 

Like what? Little League? Active in the community, maybe but not in the Scout's Troop and Patrol.

 

It seems, FScouter, you would agree that the definition of "active" is very subjective. While you and I agree on some point in your list,we don't on others. And that's OK.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10