Eagle Requirements

[ASM59]

Hello,

I really am hoping for some guidance. We have a Life Scout (16 yrs. old) that transferred from a Troop in another state. He was Life rank for 4.5 months before he moved and held a position of responsibility for the whole 4.5 months. He has been with our Troop for a little over one year now (15 months). When he first attended one of our meetings, he made it known that he was joining so he could finish his Eagle requirements and that all he had left was two merit badges. His Eagle Service Project and Letters of Recommendation were on file with his old Council office and have been transferred to our Council.

 

His meeting attendance:

He typically misses one or two meetings per month, without a phone call to let us know he will not be there. When he does come he is sometimes late and often leaves early without letting us know that he needs to leave.

His Outing Attendance:

He has not gone on any outings with our Troop.

 

Three weeks ago, I wanted to discuss what I perceive to be a problem with this young man (attendance and holding a position of responsibility), but before I spoke, he announced that he is finished with his Merit Badges now and was ready for me to begin getting all his Eagle "stuff" together so he could advance.

 

My questions:

 

I know for certain that he has not finished requirement #4 (While a Life Scout, serve for 6 months in a position of responsibility). I told him that we need to come to an agreement about how to complete this requirement. Does he need to serve only for another 1.5 months or for a full 6 consecutive months?

 

I question if he has completed requirement #1 (Be active ... for at least 6 months). I am sure he was active as a Life Scout in his old Troop for 4.5 months, so I think we can work around this one if we come to an agreement on requirement #4. What constitutes "active" for you in your Troops?

 

What about showing Scout Spirit? I have many e-mails from this young mans mother stating that he is lacking in motivation to get his Eagle rank requirements finished and that she is pushing him to get it finished. I am always telling our Scouts that their meeting and outing attendance goes a long way in telling me about their Scout Spirit. Am I wrong to use this as a measure of Scout Spirit? I understand that there are other activities and obligations that require a Scout to miss, but we have always expected a phone call prior to missing a meeting for that absence to be excused. And not attending any Scout outings in 15 months seems a bit extreme for someone who is demonstrating Scout Spirit.

 

Any comments are appreciated,

 

ASM 59

 

[EagleInKY]

I think I'd sit down with him and discuss what he believes those two requirements to mean. If his definition is different from yours, you need to have a frank discussion. I would think you would have to get him to be involved for at least two months serving in some capacity. But he needs to do it with a scout spirit. Come up with a plan for how he can do that before his 18th birthday. If he doesn't execute it, he doesn't make Eagle, that simple.

 

It may not be a bad idea to include the parents in on the discussion, or at least follow up with them on what was decided.

[Hunt]

As far as his position of responsibility, he only needs 1.5 months, because the requirement is to serve in one or more of the positions. The same is true for being active in the troop--there is nothing that says the months have to be consecutive.

Here's my somewhat devious suggestion: give him a position of responsibility that can only be performed on outings--perhaps Camp Cooking Instructor. If he steps up and does it, sign him off and let him go. I have some sympathy for this kid--he had performed most of his Eagle requirements in his old troop, and then his family moves him to a new state. Maybe if you could get him to go on a few outings, he'd be drawn back in to the fun side of it.

[ASM59]

Thanks for the feedback. My understanding was the same with regard to the time he has left to be active and hold a position; 1.5 months more. I also have had some sympathy and am not being as hard on him as others tend to want to be; some in the troop think that he needs to serve actively and in a position of responsibility for 6 months beginning any time he is ready. But, I'm ready to go to bat for him and will insist that the requirement states "6 months" not "6 consecutive months".

 

I am still interested what other Troops consider being active. Do you have written guidelines or do you simply use your best judgement?

 

ASM59

[Trevorum]

ASM,

This scenario is far from unusual, but it will probably take some careful counseling from you to motivate him to complete the requirements. It would be easy for a young man in this situation to walk away from the "hurdles that are being thrown up" (as he might see it) and never complete his Eagle. That is not the point of course - the point is to teach him persistence and patience in persuing a worthwhile goal, as well as care in "reading the fine print" of written obligations/requirements, and thoroughness in follow-through.

 

I agree that the 6 months in a POR need not be continuous. As a rule of thumb, I allow ONE break in POR tenure, for any reason.

 

Defining ACTIVE participation is slippery. What is considered active in one troop is not in another. We have written guidelines in our troop handbook that spell out active as attending 75% of meetings and activities. However, active need not be continuous since his last rank, just for a minimum of six months. Often a scout will be very active for 6-12 months after earning Life, and then we might see rather less of him for a while (especially for those guys who are in high school) until he has completed all other requirements (project, etc.). I don't have a problem with this, but I know of other SMs who are more insistent on continuous participation between Life and Eagle.

[Trevorum]

ASM,

This scenario is far from unusual, but it will probably take some careful counseling from you to motivate him to complete the requirements. It would be easy for a young man in this situation to walk away from the "hurdles that are being thrown up" (as he might see it) and never complete his Eagle. That is not the point of course - the point is to teach him persistence and patience in persuing a worthwhile goal, as well as care in "reading the fine print" of written obligations/requirements, and thoroughness in follow-through.

 

I agree that the 6 months in a POR need not be continuous. As a rule of thumb, I allow ONE break in POR tenure, for any reason.

 

Defining ACTIVE participation is slippery. What is considered active in one troop is not in another. We have written guidelines in our troop handbook that spell out active as attending 75% of meetings and activities. However, active need not be continuous since his last rank, just for a minimum of six months. Often a scout will be very active for 6-12 months after earning Life, and then we might see rather less of him for a while (especially for those guys who are in high school) until he has completed all other requirements (project, etc.). I don't have a problem with this, but I know of other SMs who are more insistent on continuous participation between Life and Eagle.

[OldGreyEagle]

The only standard for being "active" is being registered in a troop. Has nothing to do with meeting attendance, outing attendance, wearing the unform or how loud he sings for lost items .

 

I agree he has 1.5 months left to complete his POR, and during that time, he will be "active" in the troop, because be will have to be to fulfill the requirment. The requirments are to be active for 6 months, the same as the POR time length, I dont see how you can fulfill the POR without being active.

[evmori]

Since the BSA doesn't define active, I have always felt each unit could. I have never like the idea of active only being registered & I really don't feel that is what the BSA had in mind.

 

Ed mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle]

::heavy sigh::

 

Here we go again, and please tune into the new topic, what is "active"

[SWScouter]

Oh my gosh! Break out the champagne, err a bug juice, OldGreyEagle has two posts in one thread and neither of them double posted.

 

Now, back to your regularly scheduled topic...

[evmori]

And no one has ever shown a BSA definition of active. Now I don't want to rehash an old thread but to me, active doesn't mean registered.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[AwHeck]

Am I the only one bothered by this statement:

 

"before I spoke, he announced that he is finished with his Merit Badges now and was ready for me to begin getting all his Eagle "stuff" together so he could advance. "

 

Why would it be an adult leader's responsibility to get a youth's "Eagle stuff" together? So far as I know, it's the youth's responsibility with some guidance, perhaps, from a unit leader....

[dan]

My son received an Eagle packet when he obtained life rank, is this the stuff this scout is asking for?

Is the Eagle packet something from the BSA or what?

[AwHeck]

The "Eagle Packet" consists of the forms and instructions, including the workbook for the eagle project so I would assume that he already has that. I'm not sure what was referred to in the posting which is why I questioned it.

[LongHaul]

SWScouter I think you are confusing OGE with Greying Breaver. As to getting the "stuff" together the boy may be referring to his records. Dates of merit badges, BORs, POR dates etc. our boys don't have all the necessary info unless they or their parents keep really good records. We copy all the pertaining advancement reports and keep them in a folder at hand in case questions arise after the Eagle App is submitted.

LongHaul