Reason for Denying Eagle

[ljnrsu]

OGE, my sentiments exactly a person is supposed to presumed innocent until proven guilty.

Scouter4321 will give you the same advice I was given when a similar situation occurred in a troop I served in. Talk to an attorney and get legal advice.

 This boy recently had his Eagle project approved and is a few months away from being 18. In our council, Eagle Boards of Review are conducted at the council level.

Nothing happens until the project is complete. If and when the project becomes completed then concerns about the Eagle application and EBOR arise. EBORs may be postponed up to 3 months from date of application without an explanation. With council preapproval they may be postponed up to 6 months. After 6 months National office must be contacted for procedures to follow.

Procedures for letters of recommendation vary. In my district the letters are sent to the Scoutmaster using preaddressed envelopes the scout supplies. They are opened by the district representative in front of the scout at his EBOR.

[Scouter4321]

He's two months from 18.

 

Do you mean we can defer the BOR until a time after he is 18? Can we ask for this waiver based on the fact that he was charged? This would seem to be a good solution.

 

Scouter4321

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Scouter4321,

 

We're not being quite clear enough. EVERYTHING EXCEPT THE EAGLE BOARD OF REVIEW MUST BE COMPLETED BY HIS EIGHTEENTH BIRTHDAY. Merit Badges, project, POR, Scout Spirit, and Scoutmaster Conference.

 

If all that is DONE, THEN AND ONLY THEN (at least in my council) will the Council Service Center entertain a delayed Eagle application. As OGE said, 90 days of delay seems to come with no questions asked. Beyond that, the Council and/or National get involved. If the work isn't done by the 18th birthday, then normally usually generally 99 44/100 per cent of the time, the young man is a Life for life. (Special Needs are another situation altogether).

 

As far as the rumormongering goes, A SCOUT IS TRUSTWORTHY, LOYAL... rumormongering helps no one, and can hurt many. The Committee Chair and the Scoutmaster need to put their feet down and stop it. If you don't, you risk making a bad situation worse. At best, spreading a rumor may garner the attention of the defense attorneys, who will want to impeach the prosecutions case. At worst, if the young man is innocent or acquitted, there can be some slander suits heading the way of boys, parents, and Scout leaders.

 

Taking things one bite at a time:

 

- Keep the young man working towards his Eagle SM Conference. The app and the EBOR can take care of themselves.

- Don't do dumb things.

- Stop the rumormongering.

[OldGreyEagle]

Scouter4321 who is "we"? that can defer the Eagle Board of Review ?

[Scouter4321]

I was thinking "we" as in the troop leaders. But I guess the scoutmaster could decide at the Scoutmaster conference whether he goes on any further after the project is finished.

 

I understand what everyone is saying about not getting into dangerous ground as far as legal issues. But, man, it is just so hard though to just let it slide by. It's particularly difficult hearing some of the other boys laughing about it, thinking it was "cool". I was so appalled, I really didn't know how to react to their comments. I'm glad that I've had some time and some advice from you all to help me simmer down before I did something rash.

 

I think if any of the boys mention it again, I will say that in spite of what they have heard, the boy hasn't been proven guilty. And then, the issue of them laughing and thinking it is cool is another matter that will have to be dealt with. Maybe saying, "If what you are saying were true, what part of the scout law do you think this activity would fall into?". or "Is there a reason why you think this is a laughing matter?"

 

Scouter4321

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lisabob]

Scouter4321 I agree that letting this "slide by" is unacceptable and, if the boy is actually guilty, sets a terrible example for the rest of the troop. I don't think anybody here is advocating that you do that.

 

As for addressing the other boys who think this young man's alleged actions were "cool," well it seems like this is a good opportunity for a scoutmaster's minute (without naming names or maybe even without specific reference to the situation). Also you might talk about who was hurt by the activities. Obviously I don't know what the nature of the activity was in this specific case but, from spending a lot of time teaching college freshmen I've noticed that many people in this age group seem to view property-related crimes (public or private) as harmless pranks, or "what the victim deserves." When you start asking about who pays for the damage or who the ancillary victims were, they may begin to look at this type of action in a somewhat different light.

 

It's a tough issue. I hope you are able to find a solution that is satisfactory for all involved.

 

Lisa'bob

 

[evmori]

Wait a minute! If I'm not mistaken, it's public knowledge this Scout is involved in this crime. That makes it fair game! Ask him!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[dan]

you are mistaken (wish we had roll eyes icon)

 

 

but being a minor his name was not printed in the paper

[evmori]

Based on the original post, everyone knows. Sure it's not in the paper! That's doesn't mean it isn't public knowledge.

 

Ask.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle]

... And of course everyone knows that which is public knowledge is 100% correct 100% of the time, never wrong and always the truth...

[Scouter4321]

Dan and OldgreyEagle are correct: technically it is NOT public knowledge because the minor's name was not revealed. But "unofficially" it is common knowledge amoung the other boys, whether it is mistaken knowledge or not (which unfortunately, I don't think it is)

 

Scouter4321

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nldscout]

Scouter4321,

You should ask the courts in your area about the rules for Youthful offenders. In NY where I am, and serve as a Town Judge, A youth 16-19 is considered a mandatory youthful offender for his first offense, so short of a Major felony his records of this type court action are forever sealed. No one in the law enforcement/legal community will even know he was convicted unless he is a repeat offender. To ask him would put the Troop, CO and asker at legal risk if he said something he shouldn't.

 

Until or unless his case is finally adjudicated you have no bussiness asking him the whats and wherefors of the case. If you think he presents a danger to the troop then talk to parents, otherwise stay away from it.

[John-in-KC]

Scouter 4321 wrote:

 

"I was thinking "we" as in the troop leaders. But I guess the scoutmaster could decide at the Scoutmaster conference whether he goes on any further after the project is finished."

 

Having read through this thread, I have two specific recommendations for Scouter4321, in direct regard to the advancement of the young man:

 

1) Contact the District and/or Council Advancement Chairman. Do this today, not tomorrow. They need to be brought up to speed on FACTS and CIRCUMSTANCES. Should the young man appeal a denied Eagle at any stage, they are key players in the process.

 

2) Contact the Scout Executive soonest. Find the attorney the council uses as General Counsel. Find out if there are Scouters who are GOOD criminal defense attorneys. Visit with them. Know the law regarding how youthful offenders are handled IN YOUR AREA. Follow that law to the T.

(NOTE: Point 2 follows on from NLDScout. THANK YOU for pointing out the rules in your area. That's the impetus of the above).

 

I also have a recommendation in regard to the rumormongering:

 

3) Do what Lisa'Bob says about one (or more) Scoutmaster minutes about "what people know" and "what is property crime."

[evmori]

Here's my problem with this. It's general knowledge the Scout in question was arrested for whatever crime(s) was committed. If this Scout earns Eagle, that will be public knowledge. Same as general knowledge. And if this Scout is guilty of the crime(s) he was arrested for, that will be general knowledge. Same as public knowledge. And what happens the next time a Scout is arrested for something?

 

How is being arrested for something and "living the Scout Oath & Law in your everyday life" not a problem for anyone? I really don't think being arrested for anything is living the Scout Oath & Law in your everyday life. This Scout might have all the requirements completed. But there is no Scout Spirit!

 

If this Scout was in my Troop, I would ask him if he was guilty. If he is, end of discussion. If he isn't I would do everything in my power to help this Scout.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[nldscout]

Ed,

Being arrested does not make you guilty. People get arrested everyday and never plead guilty or are found guilty at trial.

 

If this was my son, and the SM or leaders asked him if he was guilty before this was agudicated in a court of law, we would have real issues to discuss. If you ask him and he says I can't talk about it, what then? Are you going to punish him for following his lawyers advice?