drmbear

As I was preparing for my January "Positive Attitude" Pack meeting, I remembered a story about two brothers. The family was poor, and they each in time would have to leave home to make a life for themselves. These two brothers were as unlike each other as night is unlike day. The older brother was mean and selfish, and he saw nothing good in the life around him. The younger brother had a kindly disposition and a generous heart, and never saw a fellow-creature in distress without trying to help him. It was finally time for the older brother to set out to build a life for himself. One day, as he was approaching what looked to be a promising village, he came across an old man outside the village along the trail. The older brother asked the old man whether this village would be a good place for him to make a home. The old man asked, "What kind of place did you come from?" The brother said it was a awful place, with unfriendly, greedy people, and he was just glad to be away from there. The old man responded, "Well I expect you'll find about the same thing here." And the older brother went on his way. It wasn't long after that the younger brother set out, coming to the same village and the same old man. When the old man asked, "What kind of place did you come from?" the young man said it was a fantastic place, where he had lots of great friends, generous neighbors, and overall the best place he could imagine. And the old man responded, "Well I expect you'll find about the same thing here." The younger brother stayed and made a great life in the village. This story just seems to fit with this thread!!!

The built-in belt is easily removable, with just a few small stitches in one place. Just snip the stitches and the belt comes out.

My uniform for most of my youth was the green shirts, the ones just before they came out with the tan shirts, which is what I was wearing to finish up that time. The pants and shorts back then were always uncomfortable, and in no way were they designed for activity. Just to have a little bit of flexibility, I wore my shorts all year long, and back then we wore the light weight tall green socks with the elastic garters and green tabs. I am actually extremely happy with the newer uniforms, though I am missing out on the most recent upgrades to the pants (which I've heard is a good thing). I've been able to stock up on the switchbacks with the boot zipper through the clearances they've had over the last year, buying them for something like $5 a pair - can't beat that. They are comfortable and practical whether I'm hiking, camping, or anything else I have in mind. I feel I can actually move in these, and the nylon is a tough material, dries quickly, and easy to care for. On a non-Scout trip to Russia that included camping and hiking this past summer, I was actually wishing I had these pants instead of the things I actually took, and I'll consider that in the future. And even the nylon shirt is tougher and more useful than anything I've had previously, though I still have some of my old shirts that I sometimes wear - just not when I'm going to be out and active.

I'm a Cubmaster, so I really have a great interest in setting up a great Summer program - with opportunities for dens to get together, and more importantly lots of the great outdoor and activity-based kinds of things that Scouting really should be about. I'm also a Bear Den Leader - and when summer hits my den will become Webelos. One thing for certain, my den will will definitely be out developing Scout skills. I hope to find several opportunities to get them out camping, we'll probably set up some hiking and/or nature trips, maybe even some sort of service project or LNT activitiy. We're going to have a blast.

I ran Troop Leadership Development and Troop Leadership Training for our Council as a youth back in the 70's. That was in the days when we were teaching the leadership skills. One of the most important of the eleven leadership skills is called "Managing Learning." One of the key elements of that is making sure you figure out what the student already knows before you start teaching. I've been very frustrated with all adult leader training that NEVER starts with figuring out a starting point, and I'd say 90 percent of the time doesn't even include an evaluation process, not only for how well the student learned but also for how the trainer did so it can be improved next time. I think even some of these merit badge training discussions could be solved with more people actually understanding and using those old leadership skills.

So are you saying it really isn't worth it for a Scout to work toward achieving Eagle, since they are a "dime a dozen?" Seems to me I've always seen them report that no more than one-out-of-a-hundred actually earns Eagle. Seems to me worth a bit more - and I know it has made a huge difference for me, not only in what I know and do with my life, but also in getting jobs and a lot more. How can you be a leader in Scouting and think so little of what we hope all the boys that begin the program will strive for?

I disagree that Scoutnut delivered the correct facts. The Cub Scout Leader Book states: "A Webelos den leader who has completed position-specific training and Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders training should conduct these events." And this applies to Webelos Den Overnight Camping. I agree that "should" is not the same as "shall," so if you want to say it is not "required," then so be it. Any resident camp, however, has staff trained as appropriate, the same for what they call a Webelos-ree in the leader book. The "Guide To Safe Scouting" really doesn't go into Webelos camping, just requiring a BALOO trained adult for Pack Overnighters. The place I would definitely refer to though is the Cub Scout Outdoor Program Guidelines (publication 510-631), again these are guidelines, not rules, but again it makes it clear that Webelos Leaders for overnighters should be trained in Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders. My question would be, if you are not trained to at least the guidelines as a Webelos leader, what level of risk are you placing yourself in if for some reason something goes wrong? Heck, I know there is absolutely nothing that I really gain in camping skills from either going through BALOO or OWLS as an Eagle Scout that camped at least monthly for years, went on multiple high adventure trecks, has continued to hike and camp since then, and will be a new Webelos leader by next summer. I suffered through BALOO, and I'll go through OWLs this spring. I'll work with the guidelines!!

The Philmont Black Felt Bull originated in 1944 by Dr. E. K. Fretwell, who was then Chief Scout Executive. It was patterned after the bull found in the tile mosaic located at the downstairs entrance to the Villa Philmonte. In the beginning a first year camper or leader received only the head of the bull to sew over the left pock of the shirt. After another year's participation, one qualified for the body portion and the bull, and with three years, the tail. Eventually the bull was made in one piece, black for men and white for women, and the shirt was changed to a red wool jacket. The white bull was discontinued in the late 1980's. See 2008 threads: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=187798 http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=40484 ---------------------- I really don't need the smart comments - I was trying to be helpful. I don't believe there are any specific rules, but there are certainly long-running traditions. I went to Philmont. I climbed Baldy and the Tooth of Time. I wear the bull patch and have people assume I did and ask me about it when I wear my jacket. I think it is deceptive and dishonest to wear the patch if you didn't go. It would be like someone wearing an OA Flap they acquired and put on their uniform because it looked cool. Not very Scout-like, in my opinion.

I'm a Cubmaster, so I'm in the middle of the issue of whether the Cub Scout program can be something that causes the boys to be excited about and wanting to be in Scouts for the long haul. I'm just a few months into this job, and I'm seeing more excitement, desire, with boys bringing in their friends and more. The leaders, the program, the planning, and the overall fun keep the boys wanting more. I think too many adults try to run the program being "like" adults instead of being on a level that a nine-year-old can appreciate. I also think our program is working well because it is run by Dads - not that I think Moms don't have a place in Scouting, I just think because we're dealing with boys, it is Dads that know a whole lot more about what it's like to be like a boy (sorry Moms). The way I put on the monthly pack event and even my den meetings is all boy - what they want, what they need, and how they interact when I'm not around. Adults in the Cub program that are boring, and even ones that are female(sorry again), will get into the mode of quitting when they are at that transition age because they see Scouting as boring and because it is "girlie" (i.e. female). If it is something that is really "cool" for them as a kid, when they get to Scout age it will also be cool. And certainly they need to see a lot of "doing stuff!" Particularly outdoors stuff.

My understanding is that the bull is for those that attended Philmont, and of course there is a tradition with that for those that go over the Tooth of Time, allowing them to sew on the bull with the tail going over the shoulder seam. I know that I've had folks ask what year I attended Philmont when seeing the bull.

"...happy solstice to all. I think some religions, like Wicca, actually celebrate that." Actually, all of us that are celebrating Christmas, are celebrating the soltice, celebrating the return of the light as they had for thousands of years before anyone even thought of attaching a Christian holiday to a celebration that was already going on. For me, the "reason for the season" is connection with a very long tradition of humans celebrating hope, as the light returns. May each of you find hope in the new year, knowing the sun returns, that whatever you sow has a chance to grow, and that we have a real reason to celebrate a birth....... of a new year.

And to use a Bible story to explain that: ...like locusts!

Humans have been using stories and storytelling to help explain things, to give meaning to things that they may not even understand. I spent a lot of time studying storytelling, and it amuses me greatly when anyone actually believes Bible stories as truth. Humans are storytelling machines, and the stories in the Bible, ALL of them, come directly out of human storytelling traditions. That being said, there are no shortage of cultural and human stories from around the world, all cultures, all peoples, all religions, and it is fascinating to see the different ways that humans around this globe have explained the same types of phenomena. I really like a book on creation stories that I found by Sophia Fahs, for example. Culturally, the people that created those Bible stories still followed storytelling tradition, but "believability" for that culture did everything they could to connect the stories to real events and people. Kinda reminds me of historical fiction, like things we link to Daniel Boone, Davy Crockett, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln. Take an entirely different cultural tradition, like Native Americans for example, and they have a very full storytelling tradition that conveys virtually ALL the underlying meaning that you find in Bible stories, but with no connection to individuals or events (unimportant in their culture). I see the same differences across cultures around the world. My feeling is that God has a hand in providing the stories needed for different cultures in the way they need it. In some ways, that is what ticks me off about the concept of missionaries that go in to eliminate, change, or replace what was put there for a reason (but that is a whole other topic). In storytelling circles, I learned about an African society that required anyone that wanted to be a parent to master at least 100 stories before they could have children. Passing on a wide range of stories and folklore from all over the planet is an incredible thing for Boys Life to do. Limiting that to a storytelling tradition that was designed and needed for a small culture based in the Middle East is short-sighted. Those stories carry value, just as many other stories do, but in many ways they are not even true to the kinds of storytelling we actually need here in our culture, in our time and place. What are the important messages that we want to pass on, like the twelve core values, the Scout Oath and Law, and our societal concepts of right and wrong? What are the kinds of stories that will connect across our culture, and possibly even globally (considering the possibility of easy transport and communication around the world)? Too often, religion is used to divide people and cultures, not bring them together. Virtually every religious tradition has as a foundational concept, to love one another(in some form or another), but for some reason proponents add on to that "unless you don't believe like we do."

My wife definitely isn't overprotective in the way that she won't kick th boy out of the house to go out and play, but she at least makes sure he dresses correctly. This week we've had morning temperatures in the 20's and high winds (I know, mild compared to some parts of the country), and she sends the boy out to the school bus dressed appropriately for the cold. She complains regularly about the irresponsible parents that send their kids out in this with no hat or gloves and a light jacket, seeing the kids turning blue and shivering uncontrollably at the bus stop, often while the parent sits in a car with the engine running. I sincerely believe that across this country there is an extreme deficiency in the area of parenting. How the heck are new parents supposed to learn to be a parent in the first place - we're getting into the early generations of parents that had both of their parents working outside the home, possibly not all that present in their parenting. Whatever the reason, just because you know how to make children doesn't necessarily mean you know what is required to be a parent. I think some of the biggest youth and young adult problems, crime, and more, is all due to lack of parenting. For this particular topic, being overprotective is a way of compensating for lack of regular, ongoing, parenting, in my opinion. Kids need to know there are consequences for the things do, they need to take responsibility for themselves, and they need to trust and count on their parents and important adults to support them. I believe many parents train their kids that they can't be trusted from the very earliest years. For example, when a baby's only want to communicate to a parent that something is wrong is by crying, a common response by parents is to just let them cry, because they'll eventually stop crying on their own. My response is that the baby wanted to let you know something is wrong. Once they discover that asking for your help doesn't work, that they can't trust and count on you, then they stop crying. And "parents" think this is GREAT!!!! Is it any wonder that later, when possibly it really matters, that at a deep foundational level many kids have learned it does no good to talk to their parents about what is going on, with teen suicide, shootings at schools, drug and alcohol abuse, and more the result. ---Probably going far beyond this topic, so I'll stop here.....

I'm a Cubmaster, and I'm also a Bear Den Leader. Just because a den leader wants to plan an activity for the den, whether their own or working with another den, doesn't mean they want to go through all the effort to plan an activity for the whole pack. I know as Cubmaster I would never expect them to. It sounds to me the Pack leadership, CM and the Pack Committee, isn't really working together to plan and lead great pack activities that everyone is invited to. Heck, with boys this age, there are lots of activities that could be unmanageble with a pack sized group when the den leader is setting it up. A den leader may see something come along in the next week or so that is easy for him to coordinate with his own parents or maybe another den, but trying to throw in the whole pack is like trying to turn the Titanic. Additionally, this program is set up as Tiger Cubs, Cub Scouts(Wolves & Bears), and Webelos (4th & 5th graders). The Wolves & Bears are going through similar experiences, and no matter how much fun it may be for anyone else, there may be elements that are directly related to earning Wolf and Bear achievements or electives that are different than what anyone else may want to be working on. Don't your Webelos Dens, Web 1 and Web 2, plan campouts and activities that the Wolves and Bears really can't participate in, or even just shouldn't participate in, even if they may think it fun? Your den leaders should be applauded for planning activities and making Cub Scouts a fun thing to do for their boys. I'd say they are great den leaders for doing that. Their responsibility is to their dens (in the big scheme of things), not to the pack as a whole. It is up to the Cubmaster and Committee to plan and coordinate activities that make Cub Scouts fun for all the boys in the pack. If they are not doing that, they need to get on the ball or you need to find someone else that can.

Julian's Campfire Song Pages http://julianmorgan.tripod.com/mysite/id2.html Something else I've done - when I find a song that looks interesting, just do a search for that particular song on Google - I then actually got the tune, was able to listen to folks singing, etc.

I like the sites that have buttons that play the tune for the songs. I've found at least several of these sites in roaming around the web looking for Cub Scout songs. The good thing is that I sang so many of the good songs as a Scout, that I already know lots of the tunes - sometime just need to be reminded. My links are on another computer - I'll post a few tomorrow.

My main question is whether your boys are Webelos-2 NOW? If they are, they will not be wanting to go to Webelos camp next summer, but will be wanting to go to camp with whatever Boy Scout Troop they will be part of. My second question is what the pack and other Webelos in the pack are doing for camp. It seems to me that Webelos camp works best when the boys go to camp together with their den. There are lots of great opportunities for Webelos at camps all over the state. I checked out both PMI and Ross when I've been at Goshen. Both from what I saw and what I've been told, the programs are about identical. The differences are in geography - PMI is far more sloped than Ross (better exercise?????). And Ross is hardly flat! I'm a Bear Den Leader now(with my son), and Cubmaster, so I am looking to work with the parents and boys to set up a great Webelos camp opportunity next summer for our boys. Goshen is the council camp, but we will also be looking at Brady Saunders, Pipsico, Shenandoah, and Bayport, as possibilities. We'll see!!

In my troop as a youth, and actually how it was done at our council's Troop Leadership Training, we had the older boys in a patrol we called the Leadership Corps, usually the PL was the ASPL. Each of these boys was assigned as a patrol counsellor for one of the other patrols. Although the older guys could do their own thing, they had an affinity, and even a responsibility, to the patrols with the younger guys. I always liked the way this worked.

Last year, here in central Virginia, the snow (nothing like what you have up there in NY) in January and February messed up most of the den and pack activities for those months. Everyone was delayed until near the end of the school year for rank advancements and stuff. It is definitely a challenge keeping everyone on track when your program is bombarded with crazy weather.

My eight year old son and me occasionally like reading from the Darwin Awards books. The most important factor that I like to point out to my son is that virtually every one of the Darwin Awards goes to men or boys. There are a lot of cool, fun, and even seemingly crazy things we will do as "boys," but we don't want to end up in that book! The great tragedy here and in so many other stories like it is that everything about it was completely preventable. Although the boys make the decisions and lead a troop or patrol, it is up to us as the adult leaders to bring up the questions to prevent Darwin Award recipients. This adult leaders decision to forge ahead seems to bypass this. Even if the boys decided they really wanted to go on ahead, I would never say "no you can't," but rather start asking about what they are going to be doing to prevent various incidents (shelter, appropriate clothes, rope-possibly for tying together, buddies, rules about the switchbacks, etc.). Because this is "Boy" Scouts we're talking about, there is nothing that precludes us from plenty of Darwin Award moments. Even most of the adult men here are not immune (and that's a topic for a whole other discussion), including myself, so it's a real challenge.

My den, the Bears, were going to do a bike hike along with some of the safety requirements associated with the Ride-On requirement. As Cubmaster, I made up a sheet with all the bike riding requirements connected to all the ranks, as well as the belt loop and pin requirements, and made it a pack activity. All the boys, with a little help from parents at home verifying the boys actually got the safety concept, were able to earn the Bicycling Belt Loop. Our pack has never really had a Halloween Party/Event, but I saw somewhere in a rating of favorite activities of the boys during the Cub Scout year that the Halloween Party was one of the top two or three activities. The Bear Den has a number of electives on Magic, so I set up a Pack Magic & Treats Night on our den meeting night just before Halloween. The Bears "hosted" and performed magic tricks, others were invited to perform tricks as well, and we had Webelos that took us up on that. We sang spooky songs and did Halloween themed cheers, etc. Everyone was invited to bring treats, and the pack had a blast.

I just made up a "box of Cheer." Used it for the first time tonight, and it was a blast. Bought a big box of Cheer laundry detergent, dumped the detergent into an empty detergent bucket at home. Then collected up literally hundreds of cheers and loaded them on a Word Business Card template. I'll figure a way to make this available sometime soon. Printed them on card stock and cut them up with the paper trimmer. Piled them in the box so I can mix them good. Anytime in need of a cheer, we just grab the box, pull one out, and see what we get. If it's one we seem to like - when we are done we toss it back in the box. If it is one with too many groans, it goes into a ziplock baggie in the box, where it will stay until we start a new year. This thing is going with me to all major events - no shortage of fun when needed - and the boys seemed to love it. Even wanted to pull out some themselves.

I am a Cubmaster, and I agree that just using, actually using, the Den and Pack Meeting Resource Guide, pretty much lays everything out for a Cubmaster (or Den Leader, etc.). Combine that with various roundtable resources and Baloo's Bugle, and any pack really has all they need. On the other side, though, is implementation. Just last month I was at our council's Cub Leaders Pow Wow, and attended a "Cubmastering" course and others, so there seems to be training already available. What will cause packs to fail more than anything else is if it is just boring. Events and activities have to be fun, in short pieces to keep the attention of boys this age. Through last year, I felt our pack meetings were getting boring, and a major factor in that was that there was no planning by the leadership team (the Cubmaster just did his own thing), and the dens weren't involved in what's going on. It seemed like we were getting 20 to 30 percent participation in most things. This year that has changed drastically - we've had several big events with something like 80 to 90 percent participation, the boys never miss the Pack Events (we don't call them meetings any more - next month it is Pack Movie Night as we show camp promotion videos and eat popcorn). I challenge my den leaders to try to randomly throw me off during the program with run-ons or jokes, because the boys just don't know what to expect, and they have a blast. For tonight's Pack Event we're doing essentially a campfire (I built a simple plug in fire with LED Xmas lights and a fan), and each den is doing a skit, we'll have songs and cheers, and stories, and we'll flick on the lights for "formal introductions" as part of promoting the Good Manners beltloop(RESPECT). All this crammed into about 50 minutes of craziness, since we came up with the idea to close and then send them off with a game or activity with the Boy Scouts that help us out toward the end of our Pack Events. All this requires planning.

I was planning on getting approval, just like for any fundraising event. I don't see this as anything different than a pancake breakfast or spaghetti supper. And I was planning a membership/signup table to get guys registered and started.