Double Eagle

With all the recent talk about woodbadge indoors and whether units are using the patrol method, I was thinking about what patrols are using now for cook and chef kits. They are not offered for sale within the BSA. Philmont uses two large cooking pots for cooking, but what are your scouts using in lieu of availability of the cook and chef kits? I was never one for the aluminum mess kits that burnt food, wing nuts fell off and lost, and the bean pot always spilled. What are your patrols using for patrol cooking?

After a good read and advice given on this, I only have one recommendation for you. Stay on your son's side of this, let an "independent counsel" (sorry for the term) dig into the matter. If each party gets as upset as some parents at a little league game, that counsel will have to be able to answer for any findings. May be I missed it in the posts, but I didn't see a lot of detail for us to know more.

I'm to the thinking that what suits the scout is best for them. I was a scout in a troop with a wheelchair bound scout. We all learned to oversee it, cut him no slack, and he felt no different. It worked for us. I was a SM in a troop with one boy with cerebral palsy. Same thing. Probably a bad comparison and not to offend, but I would rather have those scouts in my unit rather than a bed wetter no one wants to share a tent with. That wetting problem seems to be harder than any physical challenge. I think it depends also on the adults and how the unit can cope with a variety, multiple, or extreme cases. They are trained, equipped, and mentally prepared to handle the situations. I see the benefit of both. Let the scout and parents decide, but keep the option available.

As I was thinking about all the issues with the items above, I had to laugh at the thought of the oversized 6" ranks, to include Eagle Scout that I can only think are jacket patches. Imagine seeing one of those on a uniform. If those oversized ranks don't go on the back of jacket, and officially only one patch on the back I know, where the heck do you put them. I have seen uniform sized eagle scout ranks sewn or glued on packs, book covers, notebooks, pen sets, neckerchiefs, hats, and other items. I would never grab up another eagle scout and tell them to cut or rip it off the item as it was not allowed. It took years to earn, they are proud of it, gets younger scouts to talk about it, and has a better effect being seen rather than buried in box only to be replaced with a knot. My two cents.

Like Chris 1 says above, don't tell "Heartland of America" or "Ozark Trails" Councils, they can't wear their mic-o-say necklace. You would be amazed what a scout or scouter would do for one little bead. OA can have some beads in there also. Cubs know this pride from beads and arrow points. As a roundtable commissioner, I gave out locomotive-engine beads to those "trained" leaders for their necklace. Each attendee to a roundtable received a bead/item. As necklaces got rather long, we found other ways to display them, like attaching to a coup stick or hiking stave. I've used beads and necklaces with scouts and cubs for years. Every event received a different bead, or item. This is similar to the "arrow of light" arrow with bands crested on the shaft. I like to use orange beads for tigers, yellow for wolves, etc. OA may get red or white feathers. On a final note, I find it interesting how many scouters fault the necklaces, quote the uniform guide, but still refer to class A or class B uniforms. Please don't be too critical of motivational practices when you can't understand what a field uniform is. I've seen really great scouts in ragged clothes and hand-me-down uniforms, and really poor scouters in highly pressed, correctly-placed-item uniforms.

Since it was brought up, our council's camping rules for camps specifically talks about Crocs are ok at the waterfront and showers. This is for council owned properties. It also says no sheath knives in camps. National doesn't chime in on either, but GTSS is a must with intent met. As I scouted in Panama, Hawaii, Canada, and Switzerland, I am still a proponent for a machete. How this differs from a sheath knife, I don't know besides size. We even used them to cut snow blocks in Alaska for igloos. We used to carry one machete per patrol. No thumbs or toes hacked off so far (knock on wood).

Frogg Toggs or retreat the jacket. I personally retreat my jackets when they don't repel anymore.

Inspecting gear with scouts present, able to correct deficiencies, and looking for cleanliness, compliance, and serviceability is totally acceptable and expected. Done on a whim, in secret, or as a good idea is not what we want scouts to emulate. This inspection is best done in privacy as easy as behind a vehicle with the parents at the pick up point. They can take the prohibited stuff, have knowledge of what the scout has, and in semi-privacy, stash the polka dot drawers without having a public showing.

Referring back to the original posting topic, it was about whether going through a tote without the owner's presence is acceptable. To be blunt...no. I wonder how that leader would react if scouts went through his gear while he was away. I bet he would go crazy. If there was an immediate risk to life, limb, or eyesight, maybe it would be ok only to eliminate the risk. Even then, not doing in solo or without owners present is wrong. In my 30 plus years in law enforcement, searches were always an issue. With the owner present can save a lot of time when you tell them what you are looking for. I won't get into the legalities of this leader. I was thinking how the first scout law applies to this situation. Seems the leader is not trustworthy in the eyes of the scouts. In my day as a smart-mouth scout, I probably would have asked him for me to go through his gear, or tell him we are putting two scouts to watch his actions. I think I have outgrown that attitude, maybe. The meds are one thing, but OMG a phone at camp, scouts BSA is going to crumble (sarcasm).

This is a touchy issue with me as two brother scouts in the 70s, that recruited me, never made eagle as they didn't go to church. They were the best scouts around that I knew of. One even helped me when I broke my leg in three places...longer story for another thread. They had all the skills, BSA gear, summer camps, and OA participation. That one active attendance "duty to god" piece kept them out. It was disheartening to see them scout from 12-18 yrs old, earn all the good stuff, and turned away. No leader or adult came to their aid. That was the late 70s, but times change or do they?

Tick keys work around here. Almost as essential as well...the essentials. Its like a knife, ask a group of scouts to raise their hand if they have one, and all hands go up.

In the south, mosquitos were out even in January. Mild temperatures allow for easy winters and hearty bugs. While regular sprays work mostly, we used to put Avon "skin so soft" on and it worked great. I don't know if it is even around any more. While at a stationary site, a Thermacell is now the going option. Most campers and hunters in L.A (Lower Alabama) carry these and consider them an essential. Permethrin is sprayed on clothes for ticks and chiggers. Chiggers are the worst. This yankee growing up in Michigan didn't know what a tick or chigger did until entering Alabama. For those without this critter, chiggers are the number one evil. Seed ticks follow, and big old wood/dog ticks are easy. As for buying permethrin, as described above, getting it at a tractor supply type store in 16 or 32 oz and mixing it is the way to go. I have a 3 gallon sprayer that makes it easy.

This is going to be touchy issue. My first response is for a parent/grandparent/guardian not to write the religious letter for their child. You already support the child and it shows if they made it this far. Whether an "active" church goer, or not, there are other ways duty to god can be displayed. One of the most generic in a troop could be the troop chaplain position. Used correctly, that could be the only duty done. We never asked denomination or attendance records of the troop chaplain. Level of devotion and duty is measured differently in everyone. Some showboats have to show and tell everyone what they do and when. I know some quiet professionals that are the best at their craft, as others always tell of their skills and efforts. You don't have to be in the first pew to believe. Some of the most religious people I've seen have been the most quiet and humble. It all comes down to what that scout believes and does. Their view of religion will grow, morph, and can change with age, life, and experience. What and how they deliver duty will change from time to time. No easy right or wrong in this topic, except for recommending the parent/grandparent/guardian seek assistance from a religious leader.

This takes me back to boy scout sheath knives and hatchet on belts. We had similar issues back then. Although different and uses differ, my weathered experience tends to lean toward allowing them. The best thing I suggest is educate, enforce, and praise limited use of phones and electronics. I've seen units set aside 15 minutes of call times when parents and scouts were available. We have parents as "separated" and needing the contact as the scout. Phones are not going away, better to fnd a way to work positive into our programs.

That is great news and the right direction. As we look at back-to-school nights, the worst question is how much will everything cost. The sooner the better on this change. Just another example, the wood badge woggle is cheaper than the boy scout metal and cub scout neckerchief slides...hhmmm? The embroidered neckerchiefs online are the same price as silk screen printed ones. You gotta wonder.

As I was browsing the scout shop on line today looking to uniform my new Tiger granddaughter, it came to me what goofed up Cub Scout uniforms we have. Each Cub rank specific hat is $15, rank specific belt buckles are $7, specific slides are $6, and socks are $6. Why the heck are Cubs getting a new batch of uniform items each year? How about just changing the neckerchief and letting it go with that. That item is only $10. Early 90s, all Tigers wore were the orange tiger shirt with earned paw prints, as they were just trying out scouts. We nickel and dime (really $5 and $10) our adults each year needlessly. How about Scouts BSA get one cub hat, belt, socks, and slide, to wear during their tenure as a cob, much like the troops. How about cubs wearing out a uniform rather than just getting a new one each year. BSA does some really questionable stuff and the cub uniform is just one that gets me shaking my head. If national wants to see the real deal on uniforms, they should take a hard look at the Webelo and why they wear non-fitting shirts that will carry them through Scouts. They may be Webelo first years, but often wear a youth medium. Adults just don't want to hand out money like that... a scout is thrifty, but hard to say that when everything is so highly priced. With today's prices on scouting, I would never been able to scout back when I started. Cubs had the blue uniform and hat throughout. Scouting had the olive green uniforms that were handed down or traded, gear was homemade, neckerchief slides were made, lower income families could scout without feeling lower income. As a lower income scout, I thought my tin can mess kit, spoon from home, and hand-me-down uniform was great. It was about the activities and not where or how much your gear cost.

I got to see this in action in 2005. This is a great win for everyone. How cool it would be to run the refuge and gather antlers. So much for popcorn. This district has the right way to go about getting funded with a renewable source each year. In addition to elk antlers, there are a lot of other things available to find. There are skeletal parts from winter kills, deer antlers, and all kinds of things to keep scouts bug eyed. I applaud the refuge directors and scouts in getting this continued. If only more districts and councils could do things similar. One council that comes to mind that could do this is the "last frontier" council in Oklahoma. They have the Wichita Mountains Wildlife Refuge in their backyard. It has elk and buffalo. Visitors are not allowed to remove anything from the refuge, but I've seen buffalo and elk skeletons near some of the hiking paths. They have a free range longhorn cattle herd that is pretty big too. If scouts worked a deal with the refuge to gather items like in Jackson, it may benefit both organizations. I could also see scouts in Michigan and the northwest working with the DNR for salmon run processing each year. Michigan DNR used to filet salmon if you donated the eggs. I would pay a fee for them and scouts to filet salmon.

Ok, I'm stone axe dumb on what is being stressed. First, I don't want to get started on how scouting is turning into a rich scouts game. So much is being stressed over fund raising that no emphasis is placed on the program to deliver. Most scouters are tired of pushing popcorn and rightly so. Our council does a fund raising card in addition to popcorn. I met a new cub parent at the local scout office and they were in sticker shock after buying her cub a uniform. As a scout, I had to sell "Scout-o-Rama" tickets and that was it. We rarely ever went camping outside the one council camp. Just as we grow with girls and the program, we start dipping into pockets for even more money. I'd hate to see what a family with 2 or 3 scouts pays for one year of scouting. If we in scouting continue to just raise prices without any checks and balance, we will lose our program. I'd hate to start selling cookies.

Agree about getting the adults to understand and even create an adult patrol. An old goat patrol may be fun. Have the adults do everything like a patrol would do, especially on an outing. They can have an adult patrol leader and positions per se. The patrol emphasis has way more contact and interpersonal communication and interaction with the individual scout. Depending on the ages and/or rank of the troop, you have a lot of options on how to structure events. While stressing patrol methods, I've seen where ranks like star, life, or eagle have troop level activities. We pulled all star scouts to set up the ice cream social, life scouts can stay up with a fire until midnight, etc. These rank associated events are not to take away from any patrol method, as a patrol can be assigned the same task. The only afford a unit a time to bring those ranked scouts out of the patrols for troop support and another opportunity for leadership development. Patrol flags, cheers, and events only stress the use of patrols. For any negatives about woodbadge, the patrols and patrol methods are strongly followed and stressed.

I hope there is a special final resting place for those that prey on the masses. The price markup by big pharm companies is criminal. It just goes to show the tyranny of benefitting from another's misfortune. Kind of like how the elderly cannot afford insulin and other drugs on their limited income. Now that is one thing I do believe needs overhauled and fixed by working class types, not wealthy politicians claiming everything should be given.

I've scouting in other countries and even picked up a few turk's head woggles made of different material, from yute to leather. My two cents is the WB woggle should only be worn with the WB neckerchief. If any youth can make a turk's head, go scout! I've seen many with paracord of colors to signify patrols too. I believe the initial WB woggle leather is related to the tread powered sewing machine cord, about the same stuff. I did have to come the rescue of one new adult that made a woggle while at summer camp. She was so proud until some WB'er told her she couldn't wear any woggle. We had an interesting discussion with this WB'er. Like so many other scouts, I think this scout saw a cool item like a woggle and got one too. We've seen this throughout scouting where the scouts emulate what scouters do. Hiking staffs, camping gear, uniform items, and menus come to mind.

My troop was labeled like this in the late 70s, early 80s. We didn't have 12 in a year, but had maybe 3 per year when only 1% of scouts were earning it. We had a great program as a troop, lodge, and council. Never new of a district existing. We had the Mackinac honor guard each summer and is still going on today. Had a large group go to the National Jamboree, international camping in Canada, and every other year a group from council went to Philmont. It was the norm to have troop members on summer camp staff and to see eagles awarded often. It kept us motivated, as it was obtainable. None of us every thought we wouldn't become eagles. The encouragement, resources, and structure allowed us to excel. With this said, most of our eagles obtained the rank at about the 16+ or 17yr mark. We never had an eagle under 16yrs. We weren't pushed or put in a headlock to advance, our pace and fun was stressed.

Daydreaming of the past weekend with scouts, families, and the OA event, I got to thinking about all the discontinued items that I found were helpful with my two eagle scout sons. Now that I have grandchildren entering scouts, I broke out some older discontinued items I thought were great and treasure today. The first batch that comes to mind are the information bandanas like 40 knots, animal tracks, first aid, and the night sky. They are missed and were useful back in the day. Tooth of Time traders carries a couple versions, but are hard to find elsewhere. A couple other discontinued items I miss are Ulster and Camillus knives. The ones now are made in china. Victorinox makes about the best scout knife out there for scouts, glow in the dark. We miss the skill awards, scout harmonica, green jack-shirt, vittl-kit, metal box or white pocket first aid kit, fire by friction kit, boy scout hygiene kit, plumb hatchet, zebco red/white fishing reels, signal kits, and were able to buy hot pot tongs, reflector ovens, cook pots and chef kits from scout shops. Miss those days and items. Seems the hot spark has held on, but not in the plastic pouch like before. A few things went away without being missed. The late 70s red trucker cap. The metal signal mirror that was good for a summer camp and then was so scratched it made you a Picasso painting. Goofy boy scout flashlights that took D batteries, required a smack to work, and put out about 10 lumens is thankfully gone. BSA Buster Brown shoes (I had normal BB ones once as a bobcat, but I've seen the BSA types in catalogs ) that don't seem practical today. I won't miss the BSA travel tooth brush, spats, or folding garrison cap.

I must have had all the "different minded" scouts as a youth and adult. Without listing every wild thing they did, another one was bringing a huge fantasy axe like from lord of the rings. The thing was novelty and could never get an edge. The axe was almost as big as the scout and I don't think he could have swung it 10 times. Now that scout had confidence.

Keep them coming. I had a scout bring iron leg traps as he said there was a lot of muskrats around the canoe pond and no one was trapping them. We had a talk about trapping seasons, scout camp, and impact of processing animals in camp. Such is scouting in the great north woods of the Adirondacks.