AkelaT

(This message has been edited by a staff member.)

(This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Man, talk about beating a dead horse. This topic has been hashed and rehashed so many times in here and nothing new ever surfaces, some of you should read the past threads on this topic before you drag it out again. The bottom line is that those who think homosexuals in the BSA is wrong will never change their minds just as the pro homosexuals will not change their positions. What is humorous though are the so called Bible experts proseltyzing their own intolerance hiding behind biblical quotations being interpreted out of context of the time and culture in which it was written. Using their own argument when the Bible says an eye for an eye or if your hand offends cut it off, in a literal interpretation we would be hacking off body parts right and left. You can't have it both ways and thats where their argument falls flat on its face. So give it a rest.

I had the rare privilege to take WoodBadge at Gilwell Park while I was assigned to London for three years a while back. My beads come directly from an oak in Gilwell, and I am very sentimental about them and the experience I had. I still hear from a few in my group who thought it was fun to constantly tease the only American in the group. I felt no elitism, just friendships and experiences that will last a lifetime. So my advice to you is to go for it, you won't be sorry.

Anyone who has been involved in scouting for a while realizes that the Silver Beaver, and Buffalo are very political in who they are awarded to from the council level to National. They are given for favors granted, or to curry favor with those in power locally or nationally. If you really believe they are not then you are just being naive or as Brent put it "living under a very small rock." Is it wrong that the BSA awards these for favors, when the government does the same thing locally and nationally? Is this an issue that scouters should be name calling and questioning ethics? The answer to both is a big resounding NO. Come on folks this is nothing new that people are given awards they may not deserve all the time, its a fact of life. As the old adage says, "its not what you know as much as who you know.

David I think it is both naive and rather simplistic to blame the jambo tragedy for loss in Boy scout numbers. I agree with Eagledad and Brent here, losses in large numbers are due to poor programs and untrained leaders. The scandals didn't help either, but on a unit level not a major factor. Where is your evidence to support your case? Losses also occur because professional scouters are setting up weak units with weak leaders to boost their numbers, and they are gone after the first year which also attributes to these losses. Quantity has replaced quality units among professional scouters, and they bear much of the blame for losses in the program. Instead of building their exsisting units into stronger action packed programs, the DE's start another unit with 5 boys and 5 adults who are untrained and have no intention of getting trained and guess what happens? For that year the DE looks good, the next year the council posts a 25% loss of numbers as these units all fold up. So who is to blame, and who has the power to change this pattern of doing business? A hint David, its not the jamborees fault.

OGE, An impressive and lofty plan by your council, at least they are trying something unlike mine and most other councils. My only question is how are they going to enforce mandatory training since it is not a BSA mandate? Second, when number crunch time comes around and they want to look good to National what do you want to bet that the professionals start letting these training standards slide. Still it is the first well thought out and designed plan from a council I have seen or heard about. May the force be with them. And yes every scout deserves a trained leader.

The sad truth is that none of us have enough first hand knowledge of this situation to give truly good advice as to the proper course of action. This is a matter that can only be settled between the SM, WL, and parents, and only after discussions with the boy. As a few posters have noted this is not an either/or situation, let the appropriate parties make the call to avoid what could result in a lifelong traumatic dilema for the boy.

Scoutldr Oh contrare, the eastern diamondback can be and has been found as far north as Maine,as well as in my homestate of Mass. Audubon Guidebook to North American Reptiles is my source.

It could one of several snakes but without seeing a pic and from your description it sounds like a eastern diamondback rattlesnake. The exact shape of the head would be another clue.

Are the cost of scout goods high? You bet. Is the quality of the scouts goods not as good as it used to be years go? Again yes. A recent case in point I purchased some new Cub Handbooks and shirts, within a day the covers were coming off just from looking through them, not heavy use. The shirts, brand new, had loose threads and buttons coming off right and left. Could supply division do a better job with suppliers without raising prices, Yes they could. Now the other side of the coin, the BSA takes a lot of money to keep running, registration fees are not nearly enough, so where does that money come from, sales from the supply division. Without these sales there would be no program support, no councils. As far as uniforms we haave just created a uniform bank where scouters, scouts, and former scouts donate their old outgrown uniforms. We add to that supply from thrift stores who either give us or sell us at a nominal fee uniforms they get in. So there are ways to keep costs down. Without supply division sales however the BSA program would be little more than a shell of what it is today. Just my 2 cents worth.

John is right on in his assessment, unless it is a large amount and unless you have solid evidence that they took money not owed to them your COR and CO will not even bother with the matter. A letter probably won't work if the leader feels it was his money so the only option left is to sue. With lawyers billing out at $500 an hour and higher these days you really need to ask yourself, is it worth it. Thats why all unit bank accounts should have a two signature minimum requirement for all checks as well as to open and close an account. Good luck and I hope you can appeal to the guy/woman sense of honesty.

I have to agree with Baden and Gern, there are a lot of Christians who claim to have read the Bible, but few of them really understand it or can interpret it accurately. I am no thelogian but my pastor has pointed out many times stories in the Bible which are indeed fictional but were included to teach by example, Job was one of those.

My council tried this trick as well with our pack the first year in order to help a troubled district look better than it really was. I have always told my boys that an award you did not earn or deserve means nothing. The boys as a group wrote a letter to the council and returned the QU award. The upside is that every year since then the pack has earned the QU award and the boys and adults are really proud of how far the pack has come.

My webelos den attended a local city council meeting where they were invited to do the opening flag ceremony and were on local television. That night the council was discussing among other things improvements to the local zoo, there were zookeepers there with a few sample animals. The boys had a ball and at the same time learned how local government worked. They enjoyed it so much they wanted to go again. So like others have said it is not the subject but how you find new ways to present it to the boys that makes it interesting.

My pack is a stand alone one. There are two troops in our area that our boys feed into with very different leadership styles. Our boys visit both troops on different occassions and events and from those activities decide where they want to go. Sometimes this results in some healthy competition between the troops. I feel that every boy should experience several troops to make sure they feel comfortable and that will ensure that they remain in scouting.

It seems expensive until you itemize it out like Bob did, and most boys (parents) keep that uniform and present it to the boy years later as a momento of those events with all the badges earned from a whole lot of work and great memories. Have you ever bought your kid a musical instrument because they beg you and beg you, then they play it a few times and say thats too hard, there goes $300 or more for nought. You can always find used uniforms in thrift shops,uniform banks, ebay etc., my first uniform I found at Goodwill and it was hardly even worn, after getting it cleaned and pressed it looked brand new, cost shirt, belt, and pants $10, cleaning $8.50. I still have that uniform and wear it as my outdoor and spare. Remember a scout is thrifty. Just my 2 cents worth.

I am new to the forum, but have followed it for a while. I have two sons, the oldest who just received his Eagle is in Venturing and where I serve as an associate advisor to his crew. I have been a cub scout webelos leader, an assistant SM and a scoutmaster, district advancement chair, boy scout roundtable commissioner. Now my youngest son who has never shown the slightest interest in scouts has joined a cub pack as a Webelos and the Cubmaster asked and pleaded with me to be the webelos den leader. I have received all the training from cub scout through Venturing. So now I have come full circle in my scouting career and start anew with my youngest.(This message has been edited by AkelaT)