AKdenldr

Lots of good thoughts here. We suppliment the regular advancement program with the belt loops and pins. For example, now is a great time to work in a belt loop or pin, as awards for Bear, wolf are a long way off. Summer is a great time for parents to work in some pins and belt loops in accademic subjects. That, however, depends on home support and parental motivation. As the boys move older in age (Webelos and later in the Bear year), I encourage the pins. This is the first year we have had fundraising, so parents paid for these things in the boys "activity fees". Merit badge dot org has a document that lists the crossing of requirements between the advancement program and electives and the beltloop program. I've found this helpfull.

I'd ask the CM to AWARD it in a ceremony. He could come back and participate with his buddies in Feb. to a more elaborate ceremony and bridging.

Ditto, same problem here for cub scout camp. Taking Webelos who get their first experience cooking in dutch ovens at their campsites for 3 dinners. Simple cooking as I remember from visiting the older boy when at the same level. 3 different requests to get the menus so we could easily sub ingredients for boy who is dairy / egg allergic. (Mother perfectly capable of giving us a corn bread mix for top of chili, or cake mix for top of cobbler, substitution for cream of chicken soup for the chicken pot pie, etc....) Really, I thought this was a reasonable request. Had the parent meeting last night and informed the group of the lack of response from council. Kiddo will have to take his own groceries. This of course, looses the nice "we cooked it all together" dynamic. FYI, We are geographically remote and can not change camps next year. We are cub parents and learning as we go, our dutch oven skills are low and little time to practice up. Then council wonders why FOS appeals are low....

Okay, I couldn't find anything written, so this is what I did: I presented the boy with a film canister of ashes from the ceremonial fire at cubscout camp. I had an opportunity to teach all the boys about the custom of collecting and mixing ashes from important scout fires. He seemed to enjoy the guesture and talked about ashes from his next pack. Went well. I was curious about something, when I was a scout there was a thing about giving everyone a blue birthday candle, you light it, and it is for good weather on your future camping trips. Anyone know about this custom? I couldn't find it on the web. My memories are vague (it was the late 70's in the Midwest.)

We have a boy leaving and moving away. I'd like to do a small something for him at the next den meeting. Anyone have a little ceremony? My den are Webs. Thanks

Wow, what a nice problem to have. Been there with a preschool I was involved with. Perhaps people who are natural savers are running the committee. Perhaps the pay as you go plan is a historical hangover from when fund raising didn't go as well. My guess is that the CO does not know about these resources if pitching in a bit every year. Do some friendly discovery, get involved in the committee and see if more funds can be spent supporting the program for the boys. Afterall, most likely this surplus existed since long before your son joined the program.

Thanks bbender, I like the idea, much like what we've had to develop on our own over the last 5 years. However, ... I looked at the Webelos plan and I notice that the boys would earn 12 activity badges in the 9 school months meeting twice a month. I didn't look at the second year, but assume they earn the remaining 8 from September before B&G in Feb. To me this approach seems to be rushed, compressed, and superficial. There has been a recent active discussion on this site of boys earning the AOL and crossing over into Boyscouts unprepared. That mostly focused on the "know" tasks of Law, oath, etc... What Web activity badges would prepare the boys for joining the preteen / teen boy world of boyscouts? For my planning purposes I'm planning 8 in the first year (including camp and some summer activities.) We'll see where we are next spring as to what we want to accomplish past that. The Webelos leader guide will continue to be a good resource for me as they have the fun piece also prepared. A matrix that allows for coordination for activities for achievements across the ranks would be helpful. I didn't see that. My thoughts,

iJenny, Our small pack has grown to a medium sized one. For a while on this journey we were really feeling that we hadn't given the boys "real cub scouting" because we were so small. Now I think we've given them some terrific experiences that they could not have had in a larger pack. There are a lot of advantages to an "intimate" pack. I'd find some different language then "small" and "new" or "start-up" to describe your pack in conversation with parents / boys / and other scouters. Keep your focus always on the boys and your intimate pack will have a great journey in scouting. Best of wishes for your journey with scouting.

Some great feedback, here are some other ideas, When we were looking for a troop for son and his webelos buddies I looked at the websites. (Pretty common, I think.) Do you have one? Is it up to date with the plan? This might be a great place to brag about your program and the boy's successes and present your troop's philosophy. Pictures of you camping and at the camporee.... Also, as I'm planning the Webelo year I would love a troop to invite me to a first aid demonstration or many of the other requirements in the Webelo book. Become familiar with what a WDL (or even Bear leader) needs. Don't ask me to invite you, you invite us! Have you thought about recruiting 11 year old boys who are not in scouts? Best of luck as you address this problem.

In the Wolf year I extended the deadline to August for a couple straggelers that hadn't finished, feeling that I hadn't really planned well enough and communicated well enough through the year. Amazingly, these parents still didn't follow through for the few small items left. I'd extend the date again remembering that these are young boys dependent on home support to get these things done, and that these are good tasks and conversations for their development. Earning the awards (even a bit late) I would think assists with retention.

Scoutfish asked about the buliten board. I didn't ask permission, (that would have added a lot of complexity). In the past for B&G I put up small posters that had collages of the boys doing their scouting thing. I let them stay up at school for a few days. They are not recruiting based but just celebrating the boys. This B&G a buliten board was empty, so I put the posters up on that board. Wolf den leader added a few after a week or so. This is a small school of 240. Our recent discovery about the boys is that they forget what fun they have had in the past. Makes me wish I had started the den scrapbook when they were tigers.

Amazingly after 5 years in a small struggling new pack, things are in a good spot right now. Older just-bridged son is off at his first Scout campout (winter camping). It looks like the troop choosen is a good one. 3 of the 5 cross-over webs are attending this first challenging event without the full support of their best buddies going. (Planning the menu themselves was a huge draw -- my son is going for the food alone!) Parents like the adults in the troop and boys love the youth leadership. All the cross over boys are signed up for summer camp. Husband, their tired former den leader, is now excited to do stuff with the boys again (I wouldn't be surprised if after all his protests he signs up in an adult leader role). On the cub side, my den of 7 all earned their bear awards. I see them all learning and growing in other ways also. I have a new boy joining us for Webelos and might add another easy kid. With the younger dens ALL the boys have signed up for daycamp. A tiger den formed with a terrific wife/husband team that is really forming a great group. They have a younger son. The CC is stepping up and is having some success in grooming the CM and ACM. The DE is finally responding to us with some warmth (he might have learned something from his botched recruiting drive at the adjacent schools.) We have a buliten board up at school of pictures of the boys doing scout stuff that has lingered for weeks without anyone asking us to move it. I continue to be grateful for the unthanked leaders from my youth. And thanks for all the wisdom in these forums. As I read here often, I love this scouting stuff.

Hold the phone, Basement dweller said, "The council does not care one bit if Johny earned his BB belt loop. They do care if he earned his bobcat, wolf, gold and silver arrow points. Webelos activity badges are recorded as well." Really, because I didn't see any arrow points or Web activity badges on the council advancement report? Amy I missing something?

Interesting discussions. I like some of DeanRX's thoughts. In addition, I think many boys are overscheduled. Their parents have them enrolled in a sport (or 2), music, afterschool care, language or religious classes, etc... The other kiddos in the family have all their own activities also. With these boys there is little time to fully experience the scouting experiences. Coordinating calendars becomes a big problem. If the DL can't get the den together to go camping, they aren't going. Then they don't learn the skills. And with the overscheduling the parents feel they "don't have time" to work with junior at home, or to volunteer in the scouting program (because they are so busy running the taxi-service.

To all those who are having trouble with this idea. Don't your boys fish? Round here kids fish. We took tigers ice fishing. We're having salmon for dinner. Is it the feathers and fur and warm blood that is a problem?

To all those who are having trouble with this idea. Don't your boys fish? Round here kids fish. We took tigers ice fishing. We're having salmon for dinner. Is it the feathers and fur and warm blood that is a problem?

I planned activities during the summer last year-- you can add in a small amount of talking during snack. We earned the LNT and the outdoor activity patch. It set us up well for the Bear badge and really helped form the identity of the group. I kept the schedule flexable based on their sport schedules and my family's summer schedule. It went well, seemed to be appreciated and more Dads showed up. We live in the north and summers are busy, but we can't do many of these things during the school year. The bear book is so much more flexable than the wolf book. If a boy misses something you can cover something else latter.

Basementdweller -- you said, 'Super Achiever ridiculous' I agree! To answer your questions -- the boys are Bears now. We've family camped once. I ran a summer program for the first time last summer and we hiked, did conservation projects, and went to day camp. Monthly during spring to fall sounds like a good goal for camping -- I think I can sell this to the parents. We'll go to resident Webelos camp this summer. We have not camped with scouts yet. You said, "Activity pins are mostly earned on the campouts." Which ones? Outdoorsman, Naturalist, Forester, and Geologist? I'm thinking Readyman you can do, or not in the outdoors. Any others or pieces and parts of others? GKlose -- Thanks for the advise on training, will do. Greenbar Bill wrote the handbooks during which period? And thanks for this comment, "I would suggest this: get them outdoors, and out of meeting rooms, sitting at tables. Do something. Get them hooked on activity." From the responses I'm sensing I am on the right track with ditching the Webelos leader guide plan. (Not that there isn't a lot of cool hands on stuff in that book.)

This is a very interesting discussion, along the lines of what I've been thinking about. I'm considering planning the Webelos program so the Web I boys have the opportunity to earn the AOL by May next year (one calendar year). (My son would be able to bridge at the point if he wanted.) I'm not particularly interested in presenting an activity badge every 1 to 2 months as the Webelo leader guide lays it out (seems so academic). I'd rather have time for fun and hands-on projects and field trips, focusing on just the 8 required for the AOL. We do have a summer program. And having more focus on boy scout connections earlier rather than latter. It was a struggle to get older son's den to stay engaged in Web II half year. Anyone with experience doing this? Also, were should I read about patrols so I am encouraging that sort of experience in the Webelo year?

Nope, they have to earn it by participating and doing their best in all the activities in the tiger book. Support the parents going forward, create a "tidy up" meeting. etc... (Do you need to have another meeting for the parents to explain the program?) Plan an additional award for the B&G that you can give to ALL the boys in the den. I'm thinking a temporary patch like "Best Friends" or "Do your best", a tiger emblem on a leather tie, or perhaps something they earned like "bake sale". This would be awarded after the boys who earned the tiger got their award so boy still has a good evening and wants to keep coming. After all, tigers and the tiger parents are learning the game of scouting.

Your local hobby shop might be about to order you the estees educational kit. Mine contained all the contents for 12 rockets (except the engines). This was a significant savings and all the boys had the same components to assemble together. Launch pad was seperate but you can borrow those. Hobby shop also give cub scout leader discount for the engines. We did these with wolves and bears in 2 den meetings with webelos building their own at home. Launch day adults inserted the engines and placed on the launch pad. Use smaller engines so the boys can watch the rocket the whole way and recover them. Crowd control is important. Wolf achievment was assembling a model elective 5g. Great fun!

I think I read it in these forums. That there will be a new Webelos revision in June? Does anyone know if this is a minor revision, to accomodate the new belt loops, or a major revision? With school out mid May I'd like to get the books in the hands of the boys and have a Webelos parent meeting before families scatter for the summer. If the revision is a small one, I can purchase and work with the old books. Any advance info would be helpful.

Thanks all for your thoughtful responses. It was reassuring to see your thinking reflect what is floating around in our heads as we consider this all. The final upshot on all this is that we are having a parent / son meeting soon and will collect all the thoughts and let the boys decide. Roughly boys prefer the second option, although it was hard for them to assess the first group in its large troop meeting. We're hoping to take them to a patrol meeting so they can see that troop more personally. Beavah, I mentioned eagle because specifically it isn't our primary goal for our sons. Yet every troop we visited talked to the adults about the eagle process without prompting. -- Perhaps that is what they think Webelos parents are concerned with. Thanks all, I'll give a final update.

Okay, son and his Web buddies are done with cub scouting. They and we (the families) have been visiting troops. We'd like the guys to continue on together. Boys have been at the same small school. Our pack is small also. Eagle is not the goal, however we tend to see advancement as a sign that the program is a healthy and good experience. Both programs seem to have lots of adult volunteers. The troop finalists are: 1) a very large troop with an experienced SM. Robust program and calendar. Patrols are large and they will be adding another. Boys would likely be split into different patrols. Lots of eagles, lots of teen leadership. Lots of camping. 2) smaller program. The Webs liked the boys better. Less experienced SM. Young eagles, but not many older boys active in the program. Boys would be in the same patrol. Half the camping -- but still plenty. As tired den leaders we'd like a program where we can step back. But as parents we'd like a program where the boys get the attention and time they need to develop. What would you do? Are there other questions I should be asking?

Bear Dad, First off, thanks for all you are doing for the boys. I can see by the number of posts that you are really working hard to learn. Setting up a pack is made much harder than it needs to be. Some ideas I have for you: 1. Boys do leave the program, don't take it personally, they have a lot activities to choose from. Spend 90 percent of your efforts on the boys who are participating and likely to continue, not the other way around. 2. Enlist boy's dad for help. Jump on his offer to help with tools. See if they will host a meeting at their house (this often cements the boy's relationship to the other boys to be the host for a meeting.) 3. Work a bit on team building with the boys (non-competative games.) 4. Ask boys dad to help coordinate earning the hiking or map and compass beltloop, or LNT awards. 5. Are you signed up for camp? If not, you should book a date now. 6. Go to the next roundtable, stand up introduce yourself. Say you have a Bear den and have no relationships with a troop. Ask for some handy scouts to come and teach an outdoor skill and tell about scouting and camp. (I hope you'll have a flood of offers.) 7. If you haven't done the wittling chip, do it soon. 8. "Boring" can be kid code word for many other things. (Like perhaps, I don't really fit in, yet, with the other guys.) 9. On occassion we do invite families and kids that we know from scouting to go do something that is a "non-scouting event". Nuf said. 10. Around here the trainers are all volunteers, not professional scouting staff. I would get hold of them to see if they can help you early. 11. I agree that the recruitment drive can create lots of unmet expectations. 12. If boy does quit coming, list him as inactive, and keep inviting him back for camp, camping, and the summer outdoor activities. 13. If you are using the denner system, have the denner call everyone the day before an event to remind them of the meeting / event. (This is really about team building and the boys taking responsibility for their activity.) Best of luck,