AKdenldr

As young Wolves we went to daycamp. That set us up for the Outdoor Activity award. I tracked kids outdoor participation and in the fall at the parent meeting covered what they had remaining. In the main the kids had done enough with family to have completed it. In our bear summer I planned 3 hikes and we did LNT. For the next parent meeting I printed out copies of common in our area beltloop requirements and hand out, with web address for additional ones. In my limited experience my parents were still figuring out scouts and not really ready for the optional awards until after the B&G in the Wolf year. My den families were not too interested in the summer activity awards. (Although the leaders sons did earn them.) -- AK

We did it as a den activity in the bear year. It was over Christmas break but still had a high attendance. Boys brought their hand held items, but the attraction seemed to be the systems host family had. Family with an home theater hosted. Boys were young enough to not push the issue (I said only E games) and hosting family willing to monitor level of the games. Bear dad did a good job talking with the boys on the talking points of the belt loop, and really was able to contribute his time and interests to scouting when he hadn't much to that point. We did not sleep over. 3 hours of this is enough. -- AK

Some suggestions: A lot of distractions at a pack campout. A Roster for what the Webs are to do. Best if setup by them and perhaps using their buddy system. A den meeting where you start the meeting with dutch oven desert, you have your content, you finish with food (Webs are always hungry) and cleanup. I've wanted to try dutch oven pizza, as pizza is always popular with the boys, but haven't yet. Or, team them with a tiger, have them help the tiger in a simple task (roasting a hot dog). -- AK

I'm not involved in the GSA, but parent of one of my Webelos scouts said the GS camp instructions for her 13 yo daughter said "no knives" including pocket knives I'm sure. True? Whats up? Is this across the nation or a local thing?

We've had really good experiences when we do parent to parent recruiting in the spring in Kindergarden. A group of interested parents forms to provide the experience for their sons. Once first grade starts, group is ready to get going. (And those piano, swimming, etc lessons don't get scheduled over the day of scouts.) District offers Cub Leader training in the fall with a tiger breakout for the 3rd hour. Tigers get going and achieve by B&G. Boys and parents are proud. When we recruit in the fall, leaders haven't been able to schedule in the training. Group dinks around until after Christmas. Boys tend to earn their tigers late. Less retention. This group of tiger parents is interesting -- several Eagle dads. Some are even attending the summer activities and going to day camp with the Bears. It will be interesting to see how that den does. Our district has school by school fall recruiting done by the DE but this has not been effective in our school community. There was one session of training offered this spring. That is new. Our pack does den meetings after school, so this might be a big difference from other pack recruitment experiences.

I think a lot of great ideas here. I am not a fan of the 'get all 20 badges plan'. Too much like school. We meet 2-3 times a month during the school year with about once a month in the summer. I took the Webelos leader guide and picked 8 Webelos activity pins that fit the AOL and my resources in the parents and community. Planned the Web1 program around those selected 8 pins. I added in more games for fun. Most of the boys will pick up a few more pins with school work, home life, and in the few months before we bridge. We will have camped 7 times in the 18 months and had 6 hikes. Boys had increasing input into the program -- brainstorming, food planning, electing denner etc... I was unable to find a den chief which I really wanted for the program. Our focus in the fall will be connecting further with troops. Good luck, have fun.

I'm a Web DL (2nd year) on my way out of cub scouting with second son. Okay, my boys have gotten much out of scouting. But also In seven years, I've learned a lot, grown a lot, done a lot. Scouting educates the whole family. I've watched my parent volunteers also be more and more confident and comfortable over the years. By not recruiting and delegating we deny other parents these opportunity to be learners. We deny their sons the example of service to their program by their most important adults. Many times doing it yourself is easier, but only in the short term.

Yep, Scoutnut had it right. The problem is that the pack has a committee problem. Everyone who is not a den leader should be doing their share. The CM was doing a job that was too big, so no sane person would sign up for that. However you break it up ... derby guy, popcorn kernel, advancement mom, outdoor program, camp coordinator, membership, Blue and Gold family, and finally CC and reduced sized CM. If your parents will not step up for ADL ask each family to take a job(s) that you think they will fill well. No derby guy? Well, no derby. IMHO 80-90 percent of the value of scouting TO THE boys is in the DEN. If you are good at that you should stay there. 14 boys in a den is too big. Our pack has had weak CMs and CCs in the past, and scouting has thrived in the Dens. -- AK

Well, our pack is doing our parent to parent recruiting for fall tigers -- already the den is full with 3 leaders. There seems to be a demand for a program at the early elem years. Seems like if the BSA doesn't provide a program like this, someone will. Who? campfire, GSA?, Awanas, calvan corps, Heritage Girls? -- AK

Ann, I found the Wolf year in both of the dens we had to be the hardest -- because the parents had to perform to some level. A few of my parents had "ah-hah" moments when they saw all the other boys being awarded. Some homes are just not that organized. Bear year is easier because of all the choices for the award (12 of 24 achievements). You can cover multiple items in each category so most boys will have only a little to do at home. (And select those items that fit your meetings best.) Even with the Webelos I have problems with the long term tracking items sent home. Give those parents a little more time this summer. (But I don't think they will follow through). Then next year plan in some other quicker, smaller, awards so the boys are recognized often. Yes the new delivery method (what I like to call, "what we have done all along") does not totally line up with the traditional at home manual. It will be interesting to see how National revises the handbooks. - AK

Okay now the discussion has gone from 'cub leader burnout' to cub leaders need to 'up their game'? Wow, anyone else see the irony in this? Seems like "blame the other volunteers" to me. Again, my question is when cub scouting brings such a large pool of potential recruits to the boy scout program, why is the boy scout program failing to recruit and retain? -AK

Well, to look at this question backwards.... If Cub Scouting is over shadowing Boy Scouting in numbers..... Is Boy Scouting hurting Cub Scouting? This year, as I have a foot in both Pack and Troop I see extremely different programs. They almost seem unrelated. If Cub Scouting numbers are so high..... What is Boy Scouting doing wrong to loose these boys? From where I stand, the leap from cub to boy scouting is too high for all but the most resourceful/dedicated parents. My thoughts -- AK

Remembering back cooking was foil dinners (is this as per course directives?). Then when we tried to do this for the Pack campout we went through an earth unfriendly amount of tin foil and dinner took 2 hours. We've since individually purchased Dutch ovens. Campout schedule was helpful in retrospect. Too much time spent on paperwork and rules -- how about making it into a quiz show to make it lively? We wanted more time with the gear and lighting stoves. I've found OWL and OLS more useful.

Check to make sure that your church would be using this program, and not another. Get the material and take a look at it. Girls can do this too. There is a program for 3rd grade kids that would fit them better. In my experience, 7 one hour classes with some adjustments to lesson plans and more homework. -- AK

Check to make sure that your church would be using this program, and not another. Get the material and take a look at it. Girls can do this too. There is a program for 3rd grade kids that would fit them better. In my experience, 7 one hour classes with some adjustments to lesson plans and more homework. -- AK

Hello all, just an update on this topic. Our group (subset of my Web den) completed the 7 week God and Family program. We were hosted by a church that I attend, boys attend other churches. I facilitated with support from the Children's Education coordinator. Parents attended as mentors for their sons. Home church pastors were informed. One boy was totally new to any church experience. All in all a good experience that I highly recommend. Boys were very motivated by the group setting, the medal, and pizza party at the end. Church was happy with new folks coming in the building (even if they are not staying). FYI, the God and Family program is very generic and mostly focuses on what happens in 17 bible readings and how it relates to scout's family life. They have a nice over all theme of Pizza to create interest. Easy to do in such mixed setting. -- AK

K1986, I am thinking Turtle wanted to know something else.... How many activity badges does this boy have and when will he be 10.5 years old? How close is he to his AOL? In my Web I den of 8 boys 3 could bridge now and almost all by September or October. In our pack we have early bridged boys when the den experience isn't working. The result was terrific for the boys. Perhaps this boy and his dad would do better in the Boy Scout environment. Regardless, super dad needs to be told to stay home. This might be a time for you to get an official Assistant Den Leader and require the rest of the adults to be somewhere else. ("As in preparation for Boy Scouts"). You can't loose the den because of "super dad".

Find a pack and move your son's den there. Don't linger. Your son's years in cub scouts are short and he deserves a good program. Take your talents and energy elsewhere where they can bear fruit because you are supported. Don't linger. Perhaps the leaderless boys will follow. They deserve leaders too.... Don't linger.

Campout in May before school lets out. 3 hikes June, July, and August Conservation project invasive weed "smack-down". Campout in August after school starts Resident camp for Webelos and day camp for the cubs.

Here's my question. Direct Marketing, in my BS council there is very little direct marketing for development. (i.e. mailing / emails for charity drives.) Is this common everywhere? I can tell you that other programs my kids have been involved in use their mailing lists heavily. We also receive phone calls asking us to sponsor a kid for their camp etc. I've heard somewhere that you have to ask for money 7 times on average before folks give. I think hijacking an evening program out with the family (i.e. pack meeting, COH) will be received poorly regardless of content. Hijacking by strangers -- probably even more difficult. -- my thoughts/questions

Wow, I think everything will get watered down. I took Baloo one year, then Owl the next, repeated Owl the next year (because it was that good), am doing IOLs (called BLT3 here) the next year. This gave me time to digest the info, put some in practice, and learn in between. Compressing it all together will make training superficial. Human brains only hold so much info at a time. If I was in charge, I'd pull the forms, permits, book stuff out and offer it more often in classroom settings. Then put the outdoor stuff together into a wiz bang course outdoors less often. The part I liked best about OWLs was the fun ways to teach boys the outdoors Webelos Activity pins (finding the heart beat of a birch with a stethascope, etc...) I can't imagine IOLs will have time for that.

We did "family pack camping" the summer after we were done with wolves. (So we were bears.) It was a Pack campout because we had approval and pack leadership there. However, it was only boys from the bear den (plus one wolf) attended. Made it easy for a first time campout. Did a lot of Bear achievements in a round robin style. Went well and we learned a few things (especially about cooking for such a large group.) Boys slept with their parents. Did this at local state park 45 minutes from home. I recommend it highly. Boys loved it. Parents became more comfortable and leaders learned a lot.

SeattlePioneer, Well, a fifth grade first time boy mixed in with a den of 4th grade boys can work fine. The fact that the fifth grader is new to scouting doesn't mean much at this point. Yes he will have to do the bobcat, not hard at this age. He'll need a uniform, but most of the boys will be moving to a tan shirt. Joining before summer camping season is a great idea for advancement. A couple of questions does the family want the boy to go into boy scouting? Are they intending to bridge in the spring? When is the boy 11? Do they care about the advancement piece? Is the Bear den leader interested in being the Webelos den leader? Does he want 9 boys? Is he willing to do AOL activity pins early in his program year to allow for a spring cross over? Family might need to do the troop visits themselves. Probably they would need to support the den in working on the activity pins needed for AOL. I had a fifth grader in with my 4th graders this year. Worked well till older brother dropped Boy Scouts -- then whole family decided scouts wasn't for them. (Younger brother had a great time with us for nine months, however.)

I'm interested in the concept of day campers..... Is that common where you live? I'd drop it. The idea is that the boys who come and camp do the things and earn the advancements. Those that don't, don't. Announce date early and often. Then promote and market it.

Putting the advancement issue aside, Unless you really know these boys and their parents, someone needs to make a gear check. It doesn't have to be an adult. It shouldn't be the morning of, but in advance. Could even be on the phone by a patrol leader, followed up with email. (That would be way cool to the 10 year old.) 5 miles is a long way to walk in crocs, with no jacket, and only chewing gum for lunch.....