DigitalScout

Is there an electronic copy of the Scout Handbook? That would be so 21st century if so.

The LDS decision to stay with the BSA is consistent with their recent conciliatory tone towards the gay community. The LDS church was really surprised by the backlash after supporting California's proposition 8 which created a state constitutional amendment defining marriage as between a man and woman. LDS spent $20 million and bussed in church members to canvass neighborhoods to support Prop 8. The backlash was not only from gay community but inside the LDS as well as many LDS members quit the church in protest. The LDS church felt the turmoil that their efforts created among member families with gay children. Since then the LDS has been trying to mend fences with the gay community by being more inclusive with their gay members, stopped supporting anti-gay marriage initiatives, and created an outreach website called http://mormonsandgays.org/.

That's an interesting perspective. I consider psychiatry to be a hard science since anatomical and biological study is part of their medical training. Psychiatrists first earn their MD before completing a 4-year residency in mental health. Since they have an MD, they can prescribe drugs for correcting chemical imbalances, for example. Psychiatrists are fully certified medical doctors. Psychologists can hold a PhD or PsyD and most of their training is academic in nature. They aren't MDs and they can't prescribe drugs.

It's not as simple as this is learned behavior and that is genetic. For alcoholism, data suggests that some people are genetically prone to be alcoholics but the chances of them developing alcoholism is greatly diminished if alcohol is not part of the home lifestyle. If I recall correctly, alcoholism is 40% genetic and 60% learned behavioral. Aggressive behavior is similar: partly genetic and partly environmental. The American Association of Psychiatrists agrees with your conclusion: "There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation." (emphasis added by me) http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/orientation.aspx

Absolutely: Parents model behavior that their children typically adapt. But sexuality is a characteristic like eye color and height, not an adapted behavior. Studies have shown that children raised in gay parent homes are no more likely to become gay adults than children raised in heterosexual parent homes. Sexuality is not a learned or adapted behavior like smoking.

Here's an interesting history of slavery in Great Britain, Europe and the Americas. Note the difference between the banning of the slave trade and the abolition of slavery. 1777 - State of Vermont, an independent Republic after the American Revolution, becomes first sovereign state to abolish slavery 1787 - The Society for the Abolition of the Slave Trade founded in Britain by Granville Sharp and Thomas Clarkson 1792 - Denmark bans import of slaves to its West Indies colonies, although the law only took effect from 1803. 1807 - Britain passes Abolition of the Slave Trade Act, outlawing British Atlantic slave trade. - United States passes legislation banning the slave trade, effective from start of 1808. 1811 - Spain abolishes slavery, including in its colonies, though Cuba rejects ban and continues to deal in slaves. 1813 - Sweden bans slave trading 1814 - Netherlands bans slave trading 1817 - France bans slave trading, but ban not effective until 1826 1833 - Britain passes Abolition of Slavery Act, ordering gradual abolition of slavery in all British colonies. Plantation owners in the West Indies receive 20 million pounds in compensation - Great Britain and Spain sign a treaty prohibiting the slave trade 1819 - Portugal abolishes slave trade north of the equator - Britain places a naval squadron off the West African coast to enforce the ban on slave trading 1823 - Britain's Anti-Slavery Society formed. Members include William Wilberforce 1846 - Danish governor proclaims emancipation of slaves in Danish West Indies, abolishing slavery 1848 - France abolishes slavery 1851 - Brazil abolishes slave trading 1858 - Portugal abolishes slavery in its colonies, although all slaves are subject to a 20-year apprenticeship 1861 - Netherlands abolishes slavery in Dutch Caribbean colonies 1862 - U.S. President Abraham Lincoln proclaims emancipation of slaves with effect from January 1, 1863; 13th Amendment of U.S. Constitution follows in 1865 banning slavery 1886 - Slavery is abolished in Cuba 1888 - Brazil abolishes slavery Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/03/22/uk-slavery-idUSL1561464920070322

That's a great story. Scouting should be about not what divides, but what unites us. Because regardless of skin color, spiritual beliefs, and sexual orientation, we all love the outdoors, desire our children to grow into amazing adults and to instill common values.

Bad Wolf is just clowning around. But I think it is an interesting discussion. He has a valid point except I think our scouting forefathers meant exclusively the Christian God. Back then, the U.S. wasn't the multicultural paradise that it is now. Antisemitism was widely acceptable until WWII. Even today my Jewish friends are surprised that synagogues sponsor BSA troops; they always thought Boy Scouts was a Christian thing. As for Muslims, wouldn't the BSA have used the Allah if that's what they meant? Language is very powerful. The BSA should consider that God be changed to "your god(s)", "divine spirit", or "the universe."

If the CO's policy is unclear, perhaps you can refer inquiries to the CO rep. Otherwise you may misstate the CO's policy and give parents inaccurate information.

Tthe court of law and the court of public opinion are not mutually exclusion: the coexist. That's actually the wonderful feature of our First Amendment: the right to express an opinion and the right of others to express their opposition.

In a pluralistic society there exists an expectation of a certain level of tolerance in order to maintain a peaceful coexistence with others. Yet Americans have a long history of creating religious enclaves so they can embrace their religion easier without outside influences and temptations. One such enclave is New Square, New York, whose inhabitants are "members of the Skverer Hasidic movement who seek to maintain a Hasidic lifestyle disconnected from the secular world." I'm not suggesting that you go live on an island, I'm merely pointing out that others with strong religious convictions have found it necessary to create a closed community free from the offenses of pluralism. I admit that I am baffled how the presence of a gay person at the grocery, at school or at a scouting event is an infringement of religious freedom.

The BSA has been having this discussion about gay members for years, if not decades. The BSA executive board is well aware of the LDS position that they don't want any gay leaders and the latest decision is a compromise to accommodate religious COs who don't want to disallow gay leaders, such as LDS. Like the Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians and Anglicans/Episcopalians, the LDS members have been putting a lot of pressure on the LDS leadership to be more tolerant. LDS has been running a big campaign to reach out to their gay members and the gay community at large. It would seem that breaking from the BSA over the new gay leader policy would be a step backwards for the LDS.

That's brilliant. Would you mind sharing the video? It sounds like a fantastic recruitment tool.

I can't imagine the Methodist church would have any issues with the BSA allowing gay scout leaders. They already fully support the GSUSA which has allowed gay leaders for several years. The United Methodist church, like the BSA, have been struggling with the gay issue. Currently, the UMC does not allow gay pastors nor same-sex marriage. But many Methodists feel that this policy should change.

I believe this is a good example of what Terry wants to moderate. This kind of post uses improper debating techniques because it uses the fallacy of stereotyping. Stereotyping is the generalization that some people of a group have a characteristic so all members of that group have that characteristic. Since it is not valid in a debate, it must be assumed that statistics are meant to denigrate the group which, I agree with Terry, is very un-scoutlike.