denver4und@aol.com

Hi. I'll trade any CSP for our local council CSP. Our Council is the Denver Area Council, and it adopted a new CSP just this year. The new CSP looks like the old one, but has the council web site address on it. I'll also trade Tahosa Lodge 383 flaps for any lodge flaps. Tahosa just this year went to three separate patches for ordeal, brotherhood, and vigil. Patch has significantly different look from last year's flap. Send up to 3 CSP's or lodge flaps from any council or lodge with your SASE and I'll return equal number of the new DAC CSP or new Tahosa flaps. If you want ordeal, brotherhood or vigil flaps in particular, please indicate. Send to: Jim Underhill 5625 S. Newport St. Greenwood Village, CO 80111 If you want to trade jamboree, commerative, out of print or other CSP's or patches, email to denver4und@aol.com and we'll talk. YIS, jim (This message has been edited by denver4und@aol.com)(This message has been edited by denver4und@aol.com)

Hi. I'll trade any CSP for our local council CSP. Our Council is the Denver Area Council, and it adopted a new CSP just this year. The new CSP looks like the old one, but has the council web site address on it. Send up to 3 CSP's from any council with your SASE and I'll return equal number of the new DAC CSP. Send to: Jim Underhill 5625 S. Newport St. Greenwood Village, CO 80111 If you want to trade jamboree, commerative, out of print or other CSP's or patches, email to denver4und@aol.com and well talk. YIS, jim

Wow. Dining Hall or Patrol cooking? I'm surprised at only one sandwhich limit. Did you talk with commissary, camp director? I was at Goshen back in 80's and dining hall couldn't be beat. Sorry to hear problems now. YIS, jim

Wow. Dining Hall or Patrol cooking? I'm surprised at only one sandwhich limit. Did you talk with commissary, camp director? I was at Goshen back in 80's and dining hall couldn't be beat. Sorry to hear problems now. YIS, jim

Wow. Dining Hall or Patrol cooking? I'm surprised at only one sandwhich limit. Did you talk with commissary, camp director? I was at Goshen back in 80's and dining hall couldn't be beat. Sorry to hear problems now. YIS, jim

hello. All military services have a regulation requiring coooperation with scouts. But it is subject to availablity and mission priorities. Therefore, many bases are now closed or limited either due to security, or due to crowding with called up reserves. [by the way, if you know someone on active duty, he or she can get TDY orders cut to attend scout activities, like a summer camp or jamboree, if they are a regular leaders in the unit. The time is not charged to leave.] However, we have never been turned away from a national guard armory. Facilities vary. Some have bunk rooms. Others do not, but you can sleep on a floor in a class room. Some have kitchens, some do not want you to use the kitchen (negotiate! they're worried about cleaning). To locate one, determine the state you will be traveling through. Call the Adjutant General of that state (blue goverment pages in phone book, or call information, state goverment listing). Call that number and ask where the armories or offices are in that state. Then call the armory itself and talk with the folks there. In the NG, there is usually at least one full time NCO who works at the armory bldg. There will also be one or more commanders of the unit(s) stationed at that facility. good luck, YIS, jim (MAJ, ret. USAR)(This message has been edited by denver4und@aol.com)

Bob White had the right line, but didn't read it right. The "unit leader" is the Scoutmaster. No one else. There is no prohibition agiainst a CC also being an ASM. You register as one, and perform both. The prohibition is only for the Scoutmaster because it isn't right to give the power of both positions (SM and CC for example) to one person. On another note for all of you dealing with "scout lawyers". There is a provision that says that Scoutmasters and Asst. Scoutmasters do not vote on the Troop committee. Really, there is. So be careful. After one particularly bad episode, I started to register all my adults as Committee members, and then have those that I approve as ASM's wear an ASM patch. This way, we are sure that no one is excluded from a meeting. We actually had an assistant district commissioner come to a troop committee meeting unannounced. he then informed me (as SM) and all registered asst sm's to leave the room. he and the disgruntled few held a meeting in which only one other person attended who was registered as a committee member. The meeting ended when the 'outsider' asked the discontents one question: "ok, so we kick out the SM and the ASM's tonite, and which one of you takes over as SM tomorrow?" I know there were many things wrong there, not the least of which is that only the chartered organization "hires and fires" the SM. But the point is, why the legalisms? Got a good guy. He wants the headache of being CC while camping and performing as an ASM. GO FOR IT, and try to find 3 more! jim

Can't come too soon. Why you ask? I have a daughter and a son. My daughter is a Venturer now, and will receive her GS Gold award this fall. But she's had a much less fun or exciting scouting career than my son. GSA is broke. I signed on and got all the GS training, through Seniors and also district manager. I also have a letter from the Council, to me as district manager, complaining about 3 camporees in 18 months. The letter reads in part "Two or three campouts a year are two or three too many for girl scouts." This letter arrived the same week as our service unit meeting, where the leaders were raving about the last camping trip, and planning their next one. Not kidding. Her summer camps were far less exciting. She signed on for a 2 week "horse woman" camp. Turned out is was for free labor. They spent 2 weeks shoveling stalls and had three rides, all less than 1 hour long. If I could do it over, and have my daughter in BSA from age 8, I'd do it in a heartbeat. As for the mixing issue. Hey, I was in ROTC with the first class of women to attend summercamp. We survived and flourished. My wife was in the first class of women at Yale. They survived. BSA got women SM's in 1978, we've survived. Philmont, Sea BAse, and every summer camp now have female rangers, guides, mates, counselors, etc. etc. And BSA has survived. But the best part is that these girls and women have added to our program. So, I say let the combination come. You can still have units of either sex (especially at younger ages), but girls can only benefit from the BSA program as opposed to the GSA program. After all, there has to be a reason that GSA can't recruit or retain numbers at anywhere near the levels of BSA programs. Let's start giving our daughters the same high quality program that we give our sons. Jim

Hello. In my troop we require all new scouts (never before at summercamp and not 1st class rank) to go to the new scout program (always called something different at every camp). In addition, every new scout is required to take First Aid and Swimming MB's. If they have time to schedule something more, they can, but usually do not. I encourage free time! This year we had 34 boys at camp, 16 new scouts. They all completed the new scout program, and all earned first aid and swimming mb's. In addition 5 earned additional MB's. Those who chose to do more we encouraged to "fun" items, like leatherwork, art, painting, astronomy, rifle shooting, archery. They finished most of them. As for reserving rifle shooting for 3d year campers, I would disagree. Most boys can't wait to shoot. The program works for all ages, and unlike shotgun, the 22's have virtually no kick and most camps now shoot from seated benches. They may not get the MB (sometimes a kid just doesn't shoot well enough to get the points), but they all have fun. Why do we require the new scout program, 1st Aid and Swimming? In my experience I want to get new scouts into the troop program asap. I lose fewer scouts, and the scouts have more fun if they can do what the troop is doing. So, if they've have the new scout program, they can cook, they can tie knots, they can use an ax and saw, they can use their pocketknife. In short, they have the basics to go camping. With 1st Aid and Swimming they are also safe on our outings. We may not be boating, but were there's a boy there's almost always water they can get into, even if not planned. So I want to know they are at least swimmers. No matter where we go, we're scouting. Accidents can happen. Having everyone with 1st aid means that between them, they should be able to get help and do the right thing at the outset. Our troop camps every month, year around. I never end up telling a scout that he's "too young" to do the activity, regardless of the activity. Finally, a word about accomplishment. I tell parents that their son will have a great summer camp and do all he needs to do even if he never earns a single merit badge. Scouting shouldn't be about "up or out" like the Army. Its about fun. A boy having fun will naturally gravitate to stuff he likes and enjoys and will advance. A boy worried about pleasing mom or dad by checking off a list of mb's isn't evening seeing the camp around him -- he may as well be at work. As a result, our troop routinely averages 4 mb's per scout at camp, and always have one or two who "just had fun" and didn't get any mb's. thanks, jim

CAUTION CAUTION CAUTION who is this guy. doesn't seem to like any boy scout camp. His "staff"? Huh? CAUTION CAUTION CAUTION

Hello. CAUTION. I'd say who is brockdaddy? He mentions his "staff". I note his profile is not completed. Is this a scouter? I often hear about San Isabel. I usually hear good comments. So, if you're going to trash a camp, you need both credentials as well as identification to be credible. CAUTION.

Hello. I just looked at the Guide to Safe Scouting. There is no prohibition against cubs boating, just follow the rules. See the GTSS, online at www.scouting.org/cgi/gss/viewall.pl. You want Chapter II, Aquatics Safety, part that begins with subtitle "Safety Afloat", and then numbered paras 1-8. (got to ask why National can't write a manual like a manual?). There is a requirement that cubs boat at "approved council/district events". So, you'll need to have your activity approved as a district event -- or plan an event that would be a district event. However, it would not need to be at the council camp if a suitable location can be found elsewhere, see GTSS rules. As for cub boating. As you review the GTSS, you'll find it aint' going to be easy! Cubs will have to be "swimmers" as defined. Non-swimmers will have to be in a boat with a certified lifeguard or lifesaver. Finally, the GTSS notes at end of paragraph 7 that for Cubs you cannot do "trips" or "expeditions" nor boat on "running water", which is defined as rivers or streams. There is also a much more restrictive weather requirement (clear sky, no wind, warm air and water). So GO FOR IT. Scouting is about OUTING. Jim(This message has been edited by denver4und@aol.com)

Hi. I assume you know that they sell preprinted invitations (with good artwork and blank insides) at most scout shops and from national? They come in several designs, some with the eagle badge as the artwork. On the inside (which can be done on home printer or by commercial printer like Kinko's) I've had recent eagles print: "Invitation Boy's Name Eagle Scout Court of Honor date time location refreshments and light buffet following ceremony" Sometimes, an invitation will mention a special guest or presenter. good luck and congrats, jim

hello. I thought I'd share an experience I thought you might enjoy. By the way, I use your comments in these threads for "parents scoutmaster minutes". Two years ago we had our Webelos join and ended up with Greg and his MOM!!!! (she really was a MOM!!!). The first thing she told me was that Greg doesn't eat most foods. I asked about allergies and he didn't have any, but she explained that he had "sensitive" taste buds and so even at family meals if they had roast and he sat down and decided it didn't taste good, she'd get up and fix him something else in the middle of her meal. Needless to say I didn't respond except to tell her that we always have PB & J and that nobody goes hungry on our troop campouts or at summercamp. [i probably should have cut to the chase and handed her several pages from "pyschiatrist" section of the yellow pages]. First campout, I got the full tantrum treatment over the menu. He got PB & J. [Of course, if the duty roster said he was cook or cleanup, he did those chores regardless of whether he ate the menu]. By the time we were headed for summercamp (3 mos and 3 troop campouts later) he and MOM!!! had quit scouting. I'll bet she ends up living in his college apartment. I'll bet Greg ends up a basket case. Anyway, our rules are simple: 1. pickiness doesn't get you out of chores. 2. you eat the menu, if you don't like the menu, then either speak up at the planning meeting, or get out the PB & J. 3. No food in tents. If you have candy or goodies, you share with your buddies or eat in private. I would suggest that in our new climate, that "making 'em go hungry" is probably not going to square with the Youth Protection program. But PB & J (or a substitute for the nut allergies) can't go wrong. I also wanted to comment on the one submission that said that summercamp food was inadequate. I guess that's possible, but I'll bet it was picky eater syndrom. In my experience, the boys throw away more than they eat (another thread there) and I've never seen a summercamp not give out enough food -- sometimes the menu could be better, but that's not the same as not enough. YIS, Jim

I suggest that everyone copy and save the text of smaster101's comments dated 7/22/02. I did. I intend to use it in next spring's new parent letter -- it was far more articulate than my equivalent message! Needless to say, as a fellow SM with about 10 years behind me, I agree wholeheartedly with SM101's advice. We just returned from camp. We took 34 boys 400 miles to camp in another state. We had 3 homesickness cases. Two lasted the 1 hour average that I have learned to expect. After a small talk about how much fun the boy was having and a suggestion of a new activity, they were both "cured" and had a ball the rest of the week. Boy 3 is the one I'm writing about. His dad was on the trip, helping to drive and staying the first two full days of camp. We go out of state every other year, this year to Mt. Rushmore. After a week of camp, we have a 5 day "vacation" as a troop and go sight seeing. Dad of boy 3 had to go home after two days for work. He made a big deal of his leaving (one of several places he didn't follow my advice). He also told his son that he had "special permission" to call dad that night after Dad would be home (the troop rule is that no boy is allowed to the use the phone, period.) We have SM mail, regular mail, care packages, etc. The boy was upset as afternoon approached and so we had a talk. He admitted he was having fun, and that he would probably have fun the next day. We didn't talk about the phone, I decided to let him bring it up, but he didn't. I had another leader talk with him a bit later, and he admitted to her that he really didn't want to call home because he knew that he'd feel worse, but he clearly wanted someone to tell him it was ok not to call. She did. He was fine by morning and had a ball the rest of the week. In short, we never permit calls home from any outing, and in more than 15 years of summercamps, the only boys I've ever had with really bad cases of homesickness have been those who did call home. In all those years I've only had one boy go home, and that was because "helicopter mom" hovered in for a rescue. Of course, they promised to return the next day, but I didn't expect to see them again, and sure enough, they not only didn't appear at camp, but left scouting as well.