denleader09

Thanks for all the replies. My apologies, I did a cursory search for the topic and it didn't come up or I wouldn't have asked. Just to note, there is no conflict on the scout or his parents side about this. They are not attending the ceremony. I was just curious since someone expressed surprise. Scoutfish, definitely right about the opinion thing, lol This scout and one other are not receiving AOL. This scout because he is not visiting the troops and having a SM conference and he still needs to earn one thing for Showman. The minute they would change their minds, we could have him ready. The other scout hasn't earned it, so I don't award it. I agree, AOL needs to be earned and I don't consider it a rank or required, but something of an honor to work hard for. Which the others did, I am very proud of them. The other scout is a great kid, but just didn't focus on this instead of focusing on other things in his life... no shame there. He is crossing over and will not be upset to have not earned the AOL because he is prepared for it and will enjoy crossing over. My pack has done career arrows for as long as I have been there. I do think they are neat and I consider them a gift from me to each young man. I am really not a trophy type mom, but I think it is nice to have a little piece of memorobilia to remember their experience by. I am sure that someone decided they didn't want hurt feelings for the boys that didn't earn AOL to get an arrow too and consider it a career arrows since the stripes on it represented their career. *shrug* But hopefully, the memories and things they learned will be more important than the arrow or plaque or even that bridge. Our boys don't cross over until March, so hopefully, my young scout's parents will change their mind and let him go on, but I respect their decision and know he will go on to great things regardless. I was just curious as to how it would be done. Thanks again

What do you do with a scout during the crossover ceremony whose family has chosen not to join Boy Scouts ? We do a joint AOL and Crossover ceremony. Each scout gets a career arrow whether they get the AOL plaque or not. Do all the Webelos cross the bridge as a sort of graduation ceremony? And if so and they do not have a Scoutmaster at the other end, who do they cross to? In my case, the family has requested I present his career arrow at the last den meeting and they won't be attending the ceremony. But a former leader has expressed shock that we are not having him cross the bridge. I guess I have always considered crossing the bridge as "crossing the bridge to Boy Scouts" rather than a graduation ceremony symbolic act.

lol, that is a great game. Thanks! I will have to see if we can do it. That is so funny. I can't imagine the parents faces if you had used Baby Ruths. haha!

I agree with Sasha. A key tool for a den leader to have tote bag of little things to do or use. The boys in my den love index cards for making skyscrapers. Kind of like making a house of cards. But you fold the some of the cards in half and use them to stack as high as you can. Kids really do get the kick out of the littlest things. Usually whenever I think I am doing something too corny or simple, that is the big hit of the meeting, lol! And I have to say, I am not a big fan of crafty crafts like handprint crafts. I do like crafts that make useful items. But too much of it isn't fun for boys. And I do think boys who have had to sit in class all day need to move around.

What is a poop tube relay???

If you did decide to go with the Art belt loop or just the requirement for mixing colors, a fun way to do this is to take some cookies and some icing. Have the boys mix up the colors in the icing. Let them frost the cookies with their primary and secondary colors or the colors in the requirement. That is kind of messy and tasty.

I am assuming you don't have a lot of time to pick up any real supplies, but I always like crafts. Especially if there was something for Blue and Gold, like placemats or centerpieces (Sorry I am B&G chair, lol). I agree a beltloop could be fun. There is the music belt loop. You could have the boys listen to 4 types of music, sing some silly songs. You could even go into some of the pin items, like making some musical instruments. And then play musical chairs and/or limbo. Or the art belt loop could be a could last minute thing to do My boys loved making armpit fudge, so maybe some kind of food prep would be fun. A paper airplane race. Paper snowball fight. I don't think there is anything wrong with having just games, add some songs etc. and it could be a great meeting. I am sure you will come up with something fun. KISMIF and you will do great.

I am not sure how our pack does it since last year's Webelos all received the AOL award. This year, not all the scouts are getting it in this year's Web 2 den so I will know for sure. I think what we do is that all of the Webelos 2 boys get a career arrow so that shows the journey and then the boys who get AOL get a plaque. But I guess it doesn't make sense to get an arrow when you don't do it. I'll have to ask because I know some of my boys will get it next year, but I don't think that all of my den will. I want the AOL to be a special award since I feel that the boys will really have earned it.

83Eagle, Our pack is small so that is why we can not do activities and the boys don't get too bored. Ours last 1 1/2 hours to 2 hours for the whole shebang. I have been trying to look up some derby themed games and am not finding a lot. There is a game on page 25 of this year's Baloo Bugle that might be interesting: http://usscouts.org/bbugle/bb1012-P.pdf You could do a cubmobile race with the boys racing some boxes around a course on one side the room. Or relays pulling wagons or something. Relays are a type of race so maybe something where the boys assembly something or draw the parts of a car relay style. Or assemble pinewood derby cars out of rice crispie treats and oreos. It might be too late since the derby would have started, but you could have the boys make derby slides. I am not sure how many leaders or parents you have to run activities. Our pack is on the small side, so for us, we might run thin on extra helpers to run activities. Just something to think about after you come up with fun things to do. Staffing.

I wish that they would drop the "Choose to Refuse" booklet from the Fitness req. of Webelos. I felt it was geared to older boys. It talks mentions date rape drugs and hard core drugs. Great for middle school by 9/10 years old... I was a little uncomfortable with it. I had a nurse come in who discussed prescription drugs and huffing which we felt were more likely to come into a fourth grade boy's life. So I wish the drug info was more revelent to that age. But I am old fashioned, so I could be wrong. I agree that the required belt loops for Activity Pins be in the handbook. I also wish that Fitness and Citizen were pushed back a bit or structured differently. I worked really hard to make it fun, but it was hard to do. I don't treat my den like a school room and I hated that it had that feel to it. I also wish Fitness was renamed Health as everyone mixes it up with Athlete. I loved the Bear year and wouldn't change it. It seemed to prep us a little better for the choices of Webelos. Though it was a little more work for me to figure out the best way to calculate arrow points. In my next scout life, I will make the parents do more of the thinking on that, lol! I think it would be great if there were some sort of suggested timeline on belt loops. For instance, the Citizen belt loop really could be left for Webelos (imo) or the Disabilities Awareness pairs well with Communicator. Just a suggestion list not a rigid list. In my next scout life, I would also review future ranks so I would know what to expect ahead. With the new Cub Scout method, I feel it is a little too dry in the planning. To be fair, I don't use it as I had already planned out my webelos years (tentatively) and liked what I had scheduled. I just want my den to have fun doing all those corny, hands on activities while they are still young enough to appreciate it. And the new method seems rushed to me, though again, I don't follow it and could be wrong. Change is good, but sometimes it takes me a while to get on board. Overall, I am happy with the program. I think the boys are learning a lot of values and skills while having fun.

We don't let our boys do other activities. They all have to watch and cheer on the other dens. We haven't had a problem as of yet since the boys have tended to like watching the races. We have considered part of sportsmanship. But I think any games that would be games you could stop as soon as they are called up would be fine. What about making something like derby car holders or some craft that would be race related? Maybe a bingo game? Instead of bingo is could be "derby". That would keep the boys quiet and not running around as much. I like the marbles idea too.

Last year, I gave the boys these little whistles with compasses, thermometer, etc from Walmart in the camping section. They were less than $2 a piece. This year, I am giving them homemade cookies and little plastic collapsable cups. If my buget were bigger, then I would have loved to have given them something else camping/hiking related that is more useful. Like a hydration pack or some hiking staffs. Or headlamps. But I liked those plastic collapsable cups when I was a kid, so that's what I went with

SctDad, that is hilarious. I forwarded that my comittee chair and we had a good laugh. While that is our approach when someone complains, your wording is perfect!

I don't know of any whittling chip ceremonies, but could you have the CM talk of how important it is to learn knife safety and carving. And explain how the card is a type of "driver's license" for carrying a knife to cub scouts. And then mention have the parent give the card to the scout. Basically saying that this is a privlidge not just a right to carry it. I am kind of basing this on the lecture we got from the judge when I was young and got my driver's license. I still remember it.

This won't help now since the dinner is over, but here is my tip for a spaghetti dinner. Pre-cook the noodles the day before. You cook them until 1-2 minutes of being ready. Drain, rinse in cook water to stop cooking and put in large baggies. Then when you are ready to cook the noodles, it takes much less time. We did spaghetti at blue and gold last year. I had a parent who was a former chef who really poo-poo-ed me doing this. But I had read that this is what restaurants do. It turns out it was good they were precooked. The large industrial pots would come to a boil, but as soon as you lifted the lid, it would not boil. But since the noodles were within 1 minute of doneness, the water was hot enough to cook them through. So if not for precooking, we would have had a disaster on our hands. Thank goodness for the internet and the scouters who come before us!

We wear the full uniform to both den and pack meetings. The only time I let the boys off from wearing their uniforms is when we meet in the summer and the temps were in the upper 90's in the evening or if something is incredibly messy. We used to allow blue jeans, but we had a Webelos den that would never wear uniforms to anything and wore the grubbiest most ripped jeans and sweats to meetings. It was decided that you need to wear the uniform in Boy Scouts and if you were in a sport you wear the full uniform, so therefore we should too. I really thought there would be an outcry about it, but there has not been. Sometimes, when you have those high expectations people meet them. There are many options of buying on ebay, craiglist and we have had people donate their uniforms back, so for the people who join and can't afford it, we work it out. I have told my boys in my den about how they can use their uniforms for survival (i.e. wetting their neckerchiefs for cooling, using as slings, unweaving their belts for string to make shelter) and lol, they thought that was so cool. So that probably helps. As for not having time to change, I don't see why a boy couldn't pull his uniform shirt over his t-shirt he wore that day to wear to a meeting. That would just take a moment. ???

We also do it for Blue and Gold. Our dens decorate the cake. No adults allowed. The cakes must be a standard shape (round, square, etc) and can have a layer of icing on them. The cakes are decorated to a theme, but the boys have to think of what they want to do and they have to do it. We have done it with having one winner, but now everyone wins a distinct category (most interestin use of gummies, etc) The cake is then served to each den and family as dessert. It's very popular with the boys.

You are in a tough spot! If you guys decide to do the feedback option, you will have to decide how you want to gather it. If the CM is too scared to say something to the DL, then he isn't going to want to show him the feedback that his meeting is boring. If the families give it directly to the DL, then they might not be honest in their feelings because of the chance of confrontation or not wanting to hurt his feelings. What a shame that some have already quit. I wish I could think of something that you as another den leader could do to change it. I know that if another leader starts telling me how to run my meetings, I might get very defensive depending on how it's done. And if this guy really thinks he's right about the way he is doing it, you need to be careful how this might backfire. All I can think of is to encourage him to go to roundtable and lead by example. I hope that this can be resolved. Good luck!

I have to agree with everyone else. While feedback is always great for a pack, this sounds very passive aggressive. I am assuming you are including the CM as part of the upper leaders that don't want to upset the DL due to the money issue. If the CM can't talk to DL, it does put your pack in a bind with changing the den. Have the parents and/or the scouts complained about the DL's program? Are they okay with the DL? Maybe they have complained that the ADL took long in achieving rank, but didn't realize that maybe going fast would leave out a lot of fun. I wonder if the parents in the den approached the DL it might be better than leaders going behind his back to do it. Not that I blame you! Scouting is so much fun, you hate to see it become a chore for the boys. But this might be one of those things where you can't change another leader's den and it has to be between ADL and DL.

Basementdweller, I had something similar last year. The committee decided to be nice and let new parents make two payments. Of course, those parents were a hassle to get money from. One boy in my den never paid. He got a shirt, handbook, neckerchief, derby car,etc. Because of the deadline he participated all the way through January without paying anything except a $9 check. I did not want to be a debt collector and once the committee finally decided to do something, the family got very mad and insulted and left the pack. I too will never again be a part of just giving stuff away. I have no problem helping the less fortunate. I didn't get to participate in anything as a child due to our finances. So I truly think we should help boys join. But unless the family fundraises, I won't be a part of it. I also think that they should have to do a community service with the pack, but that is a whole other ball of wax. This year, we did not make the same offer to parents.

I had to go look up the cover to Little Mermaid. I read it was a total mistake and not noticed for a year after release, lol! The artist was a churchgoer who says he did it by accident and once it hit the media about the tower, his church group was the one to tell him. How embarassing!

Thanks! It was just an illustration and I am assuming that is just how the artist did it. It never said anything in the book except that cub scouts in uniform do the two finger salute. I guess the pictures don't always match.

I am getting ready to do a den meeting on the flag requirements for Citizen. When reviewing the "Your Flag" book, I noticed that the adult leaders in the diagram don't do the cub scout salute with two fingers. They all are demonstrating the normal salute you think of. I learned to do the cub scout salute from observing the other adult leaders at my pack and roundtable. Are we all doing it wrong?

I think that when the parents get upset, then that is when you say the CM and his son are just real go getters. That we should be happy for them. And that next year, the boys can earn it. I would explain that the CM just wants the best for everyone and wants the boys to experience all the opportunites of scouting. If someone actually says the word "favoritism" then I would come right out and say it isn't favoritism if the kid earned it by doing all the requirements. The CM was able to be flexible in schedule for camp, while they weren't. I know you can't control how some parents feel, but that is kind of silly for them to be mad over. I wouldn't feed it. And then maybe someone needs to chat with the CM that people are bristling at the pressure for bling and that while it is great to push the opportunities maybe he needs to phrase things a little differently. Other than that, if a parent comes out and criticizes the way things are run, that is the time to ask them to volunteer to step up and lead. I really think that the DL should think of something the boys can work on now so that they and their parents can get excited about it and that they will forget this patch. Like Leave No Trace Award or something else. Then they can see their sons earn that and not feel bad compared to the CM's son getting stuff. Basically, I just think that the parents will have to deal with it. Parents who won't sign books or do their part, but expect to get everything anyway aren't going to be happy regardless. Though, I think it is great you are trying to find ways for the boys to succeed, you can't make everyone happy. Good luck with this!

I am amazed at your bravery on facing 17 Webelos. I agree with the others about splitting up the group, but until then, maybe some of these suggestions can help. Make sure they have a gathering activity to keep them busy. Once they start running around in my experience they keep it up. Have activities that will keep them busy and are short in nature. Do one of the fun badges that will engage them. I know that my first Citizen meeting wasn't the greatest for the boys. So don't do that. You can always do the marble jar for good behavior. And/or use a talking stick to keep them from talking over each other. Have them make up a den conduct list. Keep your voice calm and not loud. Most teachers I know seem to do this. Kids have to stop to hear you. Use the den sign. Don't do what I did. Keep asking them to be quiet while using the sign. That just teaches them not to stop until you fuss at them. Just stand there quietly with the sign up. I think the best thing is to keep a routine. Do the gathering, opening, business, activity, and closing schedule. I think if they know what to expect it helps. Talk to the parents. They need to back you up. If the boys can't calm down for you, you might need to sit individuals out to make them realize ou mean business. Not in a mean way, but a firm way. I do know that sometimes the boys seem to have more "energy" than others. I am hoping that this was just a ripple in the pond and that they will calm down for you. But I really hope they can split the den up for you. Hope this helps in some way. I am sure the other more experienced members here can really give you good ideas. And good for you for doing something out of your comfort zone! I admire you.