Denalon

I have a copy of BSAs "The Boy Scout Handbook" Its a 1997 edition but what I read in there i think is still true. A Scout is Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, even Kind. Get out the book guys and read it. Why don't you just hang a sign around that ladies neck which sayd unclean and give her a little bell that she can ring when any one approaches. She obviously has some problems so what do you do? Throw her out? Wow the list keeps getting longer. Who's next.

I would like to point out to the forum that quite a few illegals in the USA are from Ireland. I listened to a programme the other day on Irish Radio. It was all about illegal immigrants in America. Some of those on the show were in America for years and had their own business, mostly in the building trades. They pay taxes and one guy even said that he successfully tendered for State contracts. The reality is that these are good tradesmen and have no problem getting work. They all want to be legal and hope for the day when the entry requiremnets will be relaxed. I know several young people from my own locality here, all well educated and willing to work, who are illegally in the USA. Since 9/11 things have got extremely difficult for them. They can't return home to Ireland for visits as they fear being found out and refused re-entry. Some of these have been unable to return for major family events such as deaths of relatives etc. Because of a booming Irish economy, we are now experiencing illegal immigration into Ireland by Eastern Europeans and Africans. I would like to think that we would treat these people as humans with some respect and dignity just as we would wish for our own to be treated in America. Ireland has a long and sad history of forced emigration from our shores. Our people were not always welcome in America, in the early days, but by dint of hard work and ambition they earned their place in your society.

Thought I'd visit the chat room. Lonely place. Then I realised the time zone difference.(This message has been edited by Denalon)

Maybe we here, in Ireland, look on these things a little diffrently to people in the USA but as a Leader, either in Cubs or Scouts, I would insist on proper respect to our National Flag. However I would also take the more relaxed view that kids of Cub Age love saluting and if it happens that they are not in 'full uniform' I would still see nothing wrong with them saluting the flag. I have often seen on TV your President Mr. Bush, saluting military personel even when he is wearing civilian attire. I appreciate that in these troubled times, there is a great upsurge in National Pride in America, however I would hold that kids, in Cubs, will show the proper respect, appropriate to their age.

"Oh, one final thing to think about: statutory rape The dirty little secret is many youth organizations have to deal with this and its similar and related legal issues on a disturbing frequency. Unfortunately all the evidence I have is anecdotal and within BSA, but I have from reliable sources it is a problem in almost any organization where such a thing is physically possible. This sounds horrible I know. Yet the compelling combination of hormones, adolescent immaturity, and the like makes for some bad things. If someone had made this argument to me a year ago I would not have taken it for anything other than the paranoid ravings of someone with a tendency toward exaggeration, however recent experiences have caused me to reevaluate." Hi folks, I am a Scout Leader in Ireland where we have had co-ed Scouting at all levels for quite a few years now. I do not presume to tell BSA how it should run its programmes but I feel compelled to comment on the above quote from 'Proud Eagle' I have seen this argument on different forums and news groups, being put forward by opponents of mixed scouting. I do not consider it a rational reason to oppose co-ed Scouting. Basically what is being said is that young people are not to be trusted and that if there are mixed genders on camping trips there is going to be unacceptable behaviour. We have boys and girls in all sections including Scouts. They go on camps and hikes together. Adult leadership must also be mixed. Of course incdents will occur where they form relationships, but we have found that where proper supervision and codes of behaviour are laid down and adhered to, the young people will respect them. My daughter has been a member of the Scout movement since age six and she is now a Cub Leader aged 21. My son is still in scouts with the rank of SPL. I appreciate that our structures are different to BSA but the basic principles of Scouting are the same. We also do not have the same level of parental involvement in camps and other activities. We have found that young people, generally are trustworthy and can be depended upon to conduct themselves with honour and respect for each other. I enjoy following the different forums here and assure you that we share a lot of the same concerns and problems as you guys do. Happy Scouting.