DeanRx

No, it really isn't a line in the sand issue. Just a question about if ti could be done or not. I guess I see a BIG difference between stating up front, "Our pack doesn't usually do this BL, because (insert reason here)." and a leader who would after being presented a BL request from cub and Akela say, "no I won't award it." With regards to the video game BL - I'm all for the former and would NEVER do the later. As for the poster who asked about the CO, well we are the "concerned parents of pack xxx", and as stated in our bylaws, the CC is in fact the COR, and thus the CO for the pack, with all registered adult leaders having an equal vote on the CO committee. Bottom line - I think the video game BL is pure hooey. The ONLY thing that gives it value is the fact that in includes some time management, money management and age appropriate facets. I doubt the issue will go any further than this discussion board. I was just interested to get some feedback and find out IF there is a way to tailor the program to a unit's own liking. I know some troops are heavy on advancement. Others, heavy on high adventure. LDS units surely tweek the program to fit their needs / religious preferences and beliefs. I don't think video games are a huge moral issue, so it is most likely one of those things that some may like others don't like about the organization. Not looking to throw the baby out with the bathwater on this... the overall expirience is much more positive than this one issue. Still for the life of me, can't imagine the internal discussion at national when the new BL requirements were being designed. After some thought - maybe THAT is my true frustration with the BL. The fact that the same folks that run our program at the national level came up with (and endorse) such a lame excuse (my own opinion) for a scout activity. Part of it makes me fearful for what will come out in the next round of revisions. Maybe I will fire a letter off to national. It'll likely get filed in the round filing cabinet, but its worth a shot.

Scoutfish- A couple of thoughts for you. I'm in the middle of my 3rd year as CM, so I know how you feel and I've been where you've been. As for the CM minute. That's just it. Keep it to 1 to 1.5 minutes if at all possible. Anything more and it turns into a lecture. You do NOT have to have one every meeting, so don't be too hard on yourself if you can't come up with one everytime. I try to tie the CM minute either into the theme for the month, OR just the month on the calander (I use the calander more than BSa monthly themes). Last month, it was a reminder to have fun, but BE SAFE when trick-or-treating. I talked real quick about sticking together when out in the neighborhood and how the "buddy system" works well in 'real-life' situations, not just scout outings and swiming. It gives something tangilble for the boys to think about. This month, I use Thanksgiving as a theme and ask the boys to think about what they are thankful for in their lives. I then challenge them to find 3 people in their daily lives that help them out and THANK THEM for what they do. This can be mom and dad, a sibling, a teacher, neighbor, but the goal is just to get the boys to THINK about what others do for them and be grateful for it. Because, when they start to realize what others do for them, they can then begin to recognize whtat THEY can do for others. As for the CM vs CC duties - split it up however you please. I'm not big on announcements other than to let folks know a run down of the dates for the next month's events. My CC is quite frankly stage-shy and does not like to get up and speak in front of a large group. So, we put them in the back of the room with the sign up sheets for upcoming events, and I play the role of carnaval hawker and announce what they can sign up for. i.e. "Kids, we have a pack campout next month... if you want to go camping with the pack, make sure your mom or dad signs you up with (insert CC name) at the back of the room before you leave! Don't miss out - only xxx spots left!" In essence, its an announcement - but it energizes the kids into action and at the same time REMINDS the adults of whats coming up. Most of all - just be yourself and have fun with it - you're doing a great service to the youth in your unit and very few will ever notice any of the foul-ups or miscues you see as so glarring in your eyes. Best of luck...

Perhaps I was somewhat vague in my OP. I would never withold or refuse to give an award that a youth has earned. My question is: Can an individual unit (based on ANY criteria - but in this case an outright disagreement with the substance of the award) pass a policy that states in effect, "In Pack XXX we will not recognize, nor award x,y,z because we feel it doesn't fit with the aims of scouting, regardless of whether it is endorsed by BSA national." We already do not promote the Video Game belt loop (I personally and many adult leaders in the group feel it is the exact opposite of what scouting should be trying to achieve). However, can we go as far as to put into the unit by-laws that we don't want to recognize it, thus going forward we will not award it? Its not a line in the sand issue, and I get what posters are stating about 'do you really want to fall on your sword for this one?". However, in an age when we have to constantly remind kids (and adults) to put down the gadget (I've actually had to speak with parents in the unit about NOT allowing kids to bring PSP / DSi / etc to den meetings and pack meetings), WHY would we even entertain this type of award? Same for reading belt loop? Same for manners belt loop? I thought reading was what you went to school to learn? I thought manners was just a given part of the program? Really, a belt loop for saying please, thank you, and maybe setting the table? Maybe I'm just trying too hard to be creative in finding a way to dis-allow such things in the unit. But, I figured if BSA allows leeway in other program areas, why not this one as well? Maybe its a battle not worth fighting. But it really makes me have to hold my nose whenever one of these belt loops comes up on an awards list.

I know it is specifically stated that a unit or leader cannot add or delete from requirements. However, can a unit choose to not recognize a given award that is outlined at BSA national? I am thinking specifically of the "Video Games" belt loop (and a couple other of the 'new' belt loops in the program). I personally (as do the majority of our unit committee) think this belt loop is absolute B.S. on the part of the BSA. I cringe when a scout finds out about it and wants to earn it. Now, I know LDS units are permitted to "tweek" the program to fit their specific needs. Does this mean that a local unit can make adjustments to program, or at least choose not to recognize a given award that is part of the national program?

Amen !!! Preach it Brother Eamonn !!! Ooops - I probably offened someone with that

I should probably have my membership in BSA revoked at this point. Judging from my interpretation of the FIRST "is this skit inappropriate?" question AND the fact that we had this very skit performed at our PACK FAMILY CAMPOUT this past weekend. It was performed by (gasp) the WOLF den !!! I personally approved the den's skits prior to the campfire. Bad, Bad Cubmaster. They used a 'stick' (not from a live tree, but one found on the ground) as the 'gun' in the skit. I suppose it would have been OK if they had pointed the "gun" above the fire-ee's head. Then we could re-name the skit "The re-enactment firing squad skit" and the boys could just be re-enacting a civil war firing squad, thus abiding by BSA G2SS rules. See - the problem with "is this inappropriate?" is WHO gets to make that decision? Its kind of the question in art or theater of "what is obscene?" Well, the best answer the supreme court has been able to come up with is, "We're not sure, but we know it when we see it." The camp director is in a no-win situation. They have the authority / responsibility to limit any skit / song done. They also get the brunt of every overly prudish parent that happens to be in camp when a skit is performed. So, the knee jerk reaction is to err on the side of caution. Thus, the program gets a little more watered down, a little less adventurous, a little less boy-brash. Why do I think Baden Powell and Green Bar Bill are rolling in their collective graves when posts such as these come up?

OK - so now I'm a racist, bigot who doesn't care? I doubt it. I've been called a LOT of things in life and accused of some things. Being racist, a bigot, or insensitive is not one of them. To claim you care and I do not, well its just untrue. Don't state that was not your intent, because your statement of, "I care" implies that those who do not agree with you must not care. I don't make those types of claims against you, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to make them against me. I can agree to disagree. I understand you might want to err on the side of caution with regards to a skit - thats fine. Its your perogative. Myself, I've been doing this long enough that I've learned that I can't waste a whole lot of time concerning myself with the whims of a few fringe parents. Frankly, I don't have the time or energy for it. We have a unit that has grown from 6 families to 50 kids over the past three years, so the leadership (myself included) must be doing something right. Just saying, one should not run themselves into the ground worrying about the people who will be PO'd no matter what you do with the program.

BDPT- First, I'd like to thank you for taking a couple of sentences of my entire post and using them completely out of context... great job, you must be a jouralist type. Did you NOT see the part of the post that stated, "Unless it is sexual in nature, racist, prejudiced, or blatantly unpatriotic - I say leave it alone". Easier to back-handedly call the poster a racist, bigot than have to disagree and argue your position on merit, isn't it? What my post said, and most REASONABLE people probably read, was that you should not go around tip-toeing on egg shells for fear of offending one or two people (those folks being the type that make it their life's work to find something to be offended at). The skit as described by the OP cannot be taken as offensive UNLESS you view it through the tainted eyes / judgement of a sexual inuendo. Just WHO is putting the sexual twist on the content? Not the boys, its the person who is offended. If I had a parent approach me after such a skit, I would fien ingorance to them, suggest that it is what it is and that there is no intentional sexual nature to it. I'd probably go so far as to question THEIR perspective for viewing / projecting something sexual or perverse onto a non-sexual situation.... then I'd walk away and let them stew. Bottom line - you are NOT going to ever NOT offend someone, so stop trying. Let the MAJORITY be your guide for good taste / bad taste, and let the others squack amongst themselves. Our jobs as leaders is to deliver exciting, entertaining, and educational PROGRAM to the youth. Not spend an inordinate amount of time hand-wringing about what ONE or TWO parents might think is outside their bounds of good taste. How about this be your guide - if its too offensive you'll know, because parents will (the majority of parents, not one or two) will let you know. If the majority see no problem with the content, then don't waste your volunteer hours worrying about it.

"When in doubt, throw it out"?!?!? REALLY ? Unless this skit had ANY overt sexual tone to it at all (spraying on the butt, privates, etc...) I do NOT see how it could be considered inappropriate. The participants all knew what was coming, so its a sight gag for the audience, the same as a pie-in-the-face or a prat-fall type comedy. Maybe it wasn't delivered very well, but a poorly performed skit does not make it inappropriate. I see skits and songs all the time at camps, council events, Webelos Woods that are worse than this: Eddie Bauer, the Lemonade stand skit, God Bless My Underwear song, etc... Now, I agree there needs to be an MC of the campfire program and all skits, songs, jokes should be vetted ahead of time to make sure there is no overt sexual overtones, no prejudice portrayed,no racism (albeit BSA overall loose portrayal of native american heritages is another post all together) etc... BUT, you need to allow for some acceptance of brash humor because without it, the scouts will equate your campfire program to watching a watered down version of a Barney the Dinosour video. Not the thing you use as a RECRUITING tool to attract and hold Webelos attention. Sorry, but anyone finding offense to the skit as portrayed by the OP would likey find something to **** about with ANY skit or song done. The guideline should be what MOST of the audience would find acceptable or offensive. The guideline should NEVER be, "Well, we shouldn't probably do this or that because it might offend one or two people...". That's PC run amok. Heck, some days - I manage to offend folks just by getting out of bed and speaking my mind. Doesn't mean I'm going to stop doing it. You ban this type of skit, you might as well cancel the future of scouting because it is soooooo far away from the founders' intent what you are doing is no longer scouting. If you find offense in a skit like this, you are part of the problem that is watering down the BSA to a nonsensical, no-substance level. Then you stand around scratching your heads trying to figure out why scouting is 'nerdy', 'uncool' and why the attrition rate is up. You ever been on the sideline of a Pop-Warner football game? You ever been on the bench of a 10+ y/o youth league basketball or baseball team? You ever been to a high school band competition? A skit like this is childsplay compared to what these kids hear and see from their own parents, their teachers and their coaches on a daily basis at the Jr High level on up. The fact that the OP even has to ASK the question makes me sad for how far we have slid into the abyss of PC taking over and diluting anything funny, gross, brash in our world. Unless it is sexual in nature, racist, prejudiced, or blatantly unpatriotic - I say leave it alone and let the kids have their juvinile gross out humor. Yes folks, this really is a matter of "boys will be boys".

That's a sad story and really too bad. However, he should have no trouble with his rank. He put in the work, even if there is little to show for it. At least it was an "Act of God" that had his project meet its fate. A friend of mine when we were scouts planned and executed his Eagle project for the city's parks department. On the north end of a lake park in our hometown, he devised a plan to build a shelter belt of trees along the northwest corner of the park. After all the work, the trees (small sapplings from 5 gal buckets) stood for all of three years. Three years later, a new parks department superintendant decided to OK the plan to build a little league field in that corner of the park. The bulldozer tore up the 50+ trees that had been planted 3 years prior to make way for right and center field. Its a great little ballpark, but everytime I'm back home, I wonder how that park would look if those trees had been allowed to grow over the past 25 years. Hope the kid gets his Eagle - sounds like he deserves it. Dean

AMEN to lone ranger... Largest hurdle I see is between the Webelos I year and the Boy Scouting expireince. Hard to keep the Webs going when most of what they want to do BSA will not let them touch until age 14. Cope - nope .22 cal - nope firebuilding - maybe BB-gun / recurve archery - yes, been doing that since Wolf year While I understand BSA's commitment to safety, I often wonder how much the lawyers and litigation minimizers have undermined the "adventure" part that BSA promises? One generation ago, my pool at summer camp HAD a diving board and one of the highlights of the week was the belly flop contest. Not a high drive, but a 1 meter springboard. All the public pools in our area still have them. However, there is not a SINGLE council pool in the country that even has a diving board at there pool anymore. At scout camp, we swam in the lake, we swam in the river, we built rope bridges across (gasp)WATER ! If you fell off, you fell in. We sometimes fell off on purpose! For OA, we had TAP-OUT, not some B.S. watered down version labelled CALL-OUT. Yes, we got roughed up a bit, but noone really got hurt, maybe a little scared, but once you were in, you were in. It was still supervised and no long term damage was ever done to anybody. But you know what it DID provide? Adventure. A sense of beating the unknown. OA gave a sense of belonging to a "secret" society that others only knew about via folk-lore. Now, mommy and daddy can go along and hold Johnny's hand through Ordeal if they want to.... Oohhh, lots of adventure and unknown mysteries there. We camped in snow caves and had winter rondevous, had snowball fights, stick fights, heck even some rock fights with other Troops. Not saying it was always PC or a little rough, but you LEARNED how to be a man, how to be tough, how to stretch yourself a little and how to lick your wounds and carry on. I don't see much of that going on anymore. We had special campouts specifically for staying out without a tent in below-freezing weather. No one ever died, no one even got frostbite or hypothermia that I remember. Last summer camp, the camp director cancelled the "rugged-O" the final night. It was an event where the entire camp took their sleeping bags out and slept under the stars on the parade field, no tents allowed. It was 1/2 the reason most of the cubs signed up because their buddies had talked so much cool stuff about it. They also had tomahawk throwing the year before. Both Rugged-O and tomahawk are gone now. Not at cub resident camp, not at webelos woods. Comment overheard this past weekend at Web Woods, "Yea, I had fun, OK. It sucked they didn't have tomahawks or rugged-O this year." Water down the kool-aid enough, the kids will stop calling it bug-juice and will tell you its really just colored water. Most will go find some other Kool-Aid to drink.

The OP is not about pack family campouts, rather 'webelos' camping. Per my WELOT (now OWLS) training last srping and per our Council's guidance (I assume it comes from national, but haven't checked b/c all I can about is if council will aprrove the tour permit)... 1) Webelos dens CAN den camp provided.... 2) Two-deep leadership is observed at all times.. 3) All adults on the campout are YPG trained 4) At least TWO of the adults in the group are WELOT / OWLS trained 5) At least ONE adult in the group has a current CPR certification As an aside - our council strongly advocates for small scout to adult ratios and limiting webelos den camps to less than 72 hours, but that is just guidance. If you have the training - then GO CAMPING! if not, then GET THE TRAINING and go camping! I was told by our council staff at the Web Woods leaders meeting this month, that the projection for boys leaving scouting between Webelos and the transition to Boy Scouts is upwards of 35-40%. Thats a high attrition rate. Anything you can do to keep them excited about scouting in this age group is a plus. Getting them outside (especially with some independence from adults) goes a LONG way in holding their attention to scouting. my 2 cents...

The unit fundraiser application referenced is a good start, but it only speaks to solicitation of monetary donations. I agree if someone wants to cater for us either at cost or free - then great. What I'm still unsure of is if we can go to the local Sports Chalet Manager and ask if he wants to donate a sleeping bag or camping stove to a silent auction we plan on having as part of the B&G this year. Again, its not a direct donation of $ and its not a raffle and thus "gambling". However, through the silent auction, any goods / services would be converted into funds for the unit's use. Still waiting for the callback from my DE...

OK sages of the virtual campfire... Waiting to hear back from my DE on this one, but thought I pose it to the group... Can a unit accept / solicit donations for good or services as a one time gift for a specific unit event? Example: B&G banquet this year... if I (as a leader) am approached by a resturantuer who after speaking to a parent of one of the scouts WANTS to volunteer to cater the B&G for us this year at extremely reduced or free cost, are we allowed to accept it? Example #2: Is my organizing committee member for the B&G allowed by BSA policy to ASK for donations of goods / services to be used as door prizes or silent auction items for the B&G? What says the masses? Thanks in advance - DeanRx

As long as its not a ONE finger salute (so to speak), I'm not sure what the big deal is. Cubs do 2-finger, some adults (when with cubbies) do the same. I've seen either done with Webelos scouts - hard to tell them to do it "the little kid way", when the majority of their rank is LEARNING the BSA way of doing things. Why learn it and then not use it? Adult leaders in BSA, when visiting a cub gathering (i.e. DE, visiting SM, Roundtable, etc..) use the BSa 3-finger salute.

I say you trust them until such time they give you a reason not to. If not, you will not earn the subject's respect. You fail to call them on it when you have a reason not to trust and you will loose the respect of the rest of the group. As for if / when you test the advancement requirement(s), thats up to you. Its been a LONG time since I was a lad in the program, but I thought this is what the SM conference and BOR was? If the scout says he can do something or has done something, then take him at his word. If by demonstration or by questioning at the SM conference or BOR it is appearent that he in fact does not have a good grasp of one the the requirements, then send him back to the Troop and tell him you'll revisit the rank when he's ready for it. Prior to the SM conference or BOR its all just window dressing / rehersal anyways. When you get to the board, then it counts.

P.S. Don't bother trying to say anything or guilt them into the idea that spending time with their son (other than dropping them off at the meeting) is the most important part of their child's life. If they don't understand this concept by the time their child is in 1st grade, then there is very little you can do to promote it. Use you time and energy elsewhere.

I hate to say it, but I don't even waste time or energy on 'those' types of parents anymore. I ask, I state the needs and I respond to those that volunteer. If someone complains, I ask them if they would like to chair the committee or plan the event for next year, if they say they'd want to be involved, then I listen, get and e-mail address and cell # and hold them to their commitment to help... otherwise they are just **** ing to **** and I give little consideration to what they have to say. My motto, either get involved or don't complain. I'm not mean about it, unless we are in the middle of a pack event and a parent wants to question why or how we are doing things. We already had the committee and planning meeting for the event. ALL parents are invited to come and provide input / help out. The time to question is not in the middle of an acivity for 40 kids - its at the planning phase, or provide feedback AFTER an event and OFFER to help make it better. Otherwise, they're just wasting your time.

*** Disclaimer - if they quit drugging the kids, I'll loose a significant amount of my income !! *** That being said, we are on the way to raising the 1st and 2nd generations of kids that have been raised through their formative years with a good portion of them addicted to legal speed. Ritalin and all its "me too" drugs are basically speed. Now, there are and I have seen several children that truely have a problem with attention. does this mean they need meds? Maybe, maybe not. While the increase in prescription drug use has climbed, the amount of "free time" kids have has shrunk. Recess and Gym class have been severely decreased or in some systems cut altogether due to either budget woes or the need to "leave no child behind". I have kids in our pack that have been diagnosed as Autistic, ADD, ADHD or some other combo of mental illness. two of them went camping last spring. One, I would not want to see if he was not on meds, he truely needs it or he would have a 2 second attention span - how he functions in a classroom, I'll never guess. The other boy was out running, having fun, so much so that mom and dad forgot to give him his ADHD meds for 48 hours. he was well behaved and according to mom, "slept better than he has in almost two years." My sideline opinion - that kid was over medicated and probably just needed to have time to run his energy out everyday. But, with 2 parents working, soccer, band, music, scouts, whatever else, plus homework durring the week, this kid never got outside to play (other than organized sports - a whole other topic). In talking with mom and dad, he rarely if ever had unstructured free play or time when he could explore / daydream / or make up his own game to play. When given the opportunity to do so, he was a well behaved, well adjusted kid. I think society in general is too fast to 'label' someone with a syndrome or symptom. It is part of the 'never fail, must be the best' mentality many buy into. If you for some reason fail or fall short of being the "best", then there must be a "reason" for it - i.e. diagnois the kid so they and the parents can feel better about the situation. In general (at least in the USA) "Do your Best" has been turned into, "You must BE the BEST". You see this manifest itself at the Pinewood derby, at little league fields, in the classroom, and on the playground all the time. It is ingrained in our society. So, often the solution to someone not being the best is to find a reason (other than they are just not the best). That reason is usually a diagnosis and in our western society - nearly every diagnosis is treated with some form of drug. No parent goes to the head shrinker wanting to hear that their little Johnny is just not as smart, or isn't as strong etc... if they are spending their hard earned $ (or at least hard earned copay) on an office visit, they EXPECT a REASON (i.e. diagnosis) for WHY their child is the way they are. Its not that the psych professions are quacks or frauds - they are just giving the people what they want in exchange for the their money. Why do you think the top 3 drugs prescribed by volume and $ sold in the US are psych meds? Depending on the study and which one you believe - some 75% to 80% of the US adult population are walking around sucking down an antidepressant or anxiolytic on a daily basis. If the adults can't deal with life and need to be medicated to function normally, WHY wouldn't they expect the same of their offspring? Diet and exercise can go a LONG way to treating many of these conditions, depression, anxiety, ADHD in both kids and adults. BUT - no one wants to hear it. Big Pharma doesn't want you to hear it. There is no money in it. You'll never see a PSA on TV that tells you to turn OFF the video feed and go outside and play - that is counter to their bottom line! Few, if any, patients are willing to make the lifestyle and income (i.e. work less / play more) modifications needed to make diet and exercise a viable treatment option, so what is left? Pop a pill to get through the day.

harley - Welcome to the forum, you're in my neck of the woods. I'm in San Marcos, so we might run into each other at some council events. Enjoy the ride! Dean

4) - They don't ask because somewhere along the way, some self appointed condesending rule nazi jumped down their throat for not automatically knowing what to do, what the correct reg was, (or in most cases) HOW the uniform should properly be worn !! Yes, I think we should do things the right way with regards to uniform and requirements. However, I still see far too many adults in scouting that need to remind THEMSLEVES of the the 4th and 6th points of the Scout Law when offering advice and corrections to often well meaning but misinformed neewbies in units. The surest way to make people spot asking questions is to make them feel stupid when they asked their first one.

I disagree that you're either all-in or all-out on this one. I do agree that you are facing an unwinnable battle if you think you are going to take this on. Is your son having fun, learning new things and progressing in his scout-career? If the answer is YES, teh only real negative I see is the loss of youth leadership development your son will not be afforded, because this troop has "adult PL's". The bottom line is this ASM will continue to run things and run over people as long as the SM allows it to happen and it sounds like the committee is more than willing to play along. I say - ask your son what HE wants to do. Have a frank discussion with him about the concerns you have and weigh the pros and cons of leaving to another troop or staying put. Then let the boy decide on his own. Just because his troop is not "boy led" - doesn't mean you can't allow this decision to be "boy led".

Do they plan to offer a Lamaze merit badge course ?! Sounds kind of hokey to me, but I'm not in that part of the country. Not sure what part of PA you are in, but couldn't they just name it after the geographical area served (i.e. the southeast PA area council)?

I think co-ed all the way. We have examples from the UK, Mexico, and other European nations that have been co-ed to build a template from. Learn what has worked and what hasn't. I see co-ed scouts from Mexico all the time at scout fair and international camporees here in SD. Only thing I've heard from US scouts is, "They have girls and we don't? Why not?" Developmentally - I think it would do both genders good as they would learn to work and interact with each other during their developmental years. This would likely make them more comfortable dealing with the opposite sex once they hit puberty. I like the local option AND options for co-ed, male only, and female only weeks at camp. The ONLY drawback would be the repurcussions for the 1st female that came home from a campout or week-long camp with a child on the way. Policies and procedures would have to be AIR-TIGHT to keep that from happening. Look to private co-ed youth camps and church summer camps for HOW they handle such issues and develop policy from there. You'd just have to go into it KNOWING that at some point - a pregnancy will likely happen. Life finds a way, especially when you group together a bunch of teenaged kids. Is BSA ready or willing to face those issues? I don't know. But unless the vote is a YES - then I don't see co-ed being a reality. How does it work for venture crews right now? Do they spend a WEEK together at camp? what is the incidence rate of pregnancy within Venturing? What is the rate of pregnancy within female staff at the High Adventue bases when they spend a whole summer working together co-ed? So long as it doesn't exceed the national average for teen pregnancy and BSA puts policy in place to guard against it, then it should be viewed as a manageable risk. Again, whether BSA would agree with such a stance is anybody's guess? But it IS an issue that would have to be addressed. You can have all the policy in the world, but when Jon and Jane camper decide to meet at the boathouse at midnight, there is very little you can do to stop it (aside from locking campers into their tents / cabins - which I'm guessing wouldn't go over so well). Maybe YPG would have to be revised to include some sex ed for the tween / teen scouts? Not sure, but that would likely hasten LDS (and other religious CO's) departure from BSA support. Would BSA risk that? I doubt it. Overall, its a good idea. I'm just not sure the policy makers would ever be at a point that they would give it serious consideration. You think the newspaper headlines about pedophile scouters are a bane to recruitment now, just wait until the 1st article that declares, "Scoutmaster knocks up 14 y/o scouter at camp !" You can go co-ed, but that is the public reality you must be ready to face if and when you do go co-ed.

Just an afterthought... Be sure to have time to DISCUSS the ceremony afterwards, especially with younger scouts. For some, you will not appreciate how emotional an event it might be until they see the ceremony. Had this happen at summer camp one summer and had 7 Tiger and Wolf cubs in tears at the end of it. Glad it had such an impact, but we had to scramble to have enough adult support to discuss / console some of the younger scouts (and other adults to talk with the older scouts - so they wouldn't tease the younger ones because of their emotional reaction). Still a great thing to do - just "Be Prepared" for the emotional impact the ceremony may impart on very young scouts. My 2-cents... Dean