David CO

They do if the Chartered Organization says they do.

Just because New Jersey thinks it knows what a boy is, does not make it true.

The Chartered Organization owns the unit. The decision is ultimately theirs to make.

When I joined, nobody asked to see my birth certificate, either. They took my parents word for it too. The difference is that my parents weren't lying. This girl's parents should not be afforded the same respect. Her parents are liars. It is one thing to accept a persons word. It is an entirely different thing to continue to accept a persons word after you learn that they are lying.

I think there are two separate issues being discussed here. The first is a safety issue. The second is an image issue.

It doesn't sound like a bad place to me. But if you feel that a Chartered Organization is a bad place, then you are free to choose another unit. I would even recommend that you do so. I would never even consider joining a unit if I wasn't comfortable with the Chartered Organization.

I'm not sure what you mean by guns "waving" around. Are you saying that the club does not follow the usual gun safety rules, or are you indicating that you are personally uncomfortable around guns, even if the gun safety rules are being observed? I am beginning to suspect that you are not comfortable with your Chartered Organization. If this is the case, then you should change units.

I, for one, never meant to imply that the recent membership policy changes was BSA turning away from God. I thought I outright said it. At least I meant to. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. It is important to remember that the CO owns the unit. It's their unit. They might actually like having their unit meet at their facility. It would not be at all unusual for a sportsman's club to have youth members of similar age (to their boy scouts). It's even possible that some of the scouts are members of the club. For all we know, the boys might like meeting at the club. It sounds like it might be a pretty cool place to meet. More so than a church basement, I would guess. I would tread lightly here. I think a quiet conversation with the COR might let you know if this is something you should pursue, or if you should leave it alone. Good luck.

The family was open with the unit, but were they truthful on the application? It sounds like both the parents and the unit were committing a fraud.

I could see having a new DE observe the process, just so he knows what it is all about. Forcing him to join is entirely different. I am a little surprised that OA would go along with a "shotgun wedding" sort of thing.

I didn't know that people were being forced to join OA.

It wouldn't surprise me, either. But in this case, it appears that the girl really wants to be a cub scout. My guess is that the $18,000 covers the parents' legal expenses, and doesn't give the parents a profit.

Can't really explain it without violating the warnings given by this forums moderators. I'll just let my comments stand as they are.

There is nothing to pursue. Let it go.

The article says that the local council settled the lawsuit, not BSA. I think we need to remember that local councils are chartered, not owned, by BSA. I am generally in agreement that councils should obey the local state laws. In this particular case, I think the laws of New Jersey are abhorrent. This is also true of most of the coastal (blue) states. Yet, the state laws must be obeyed. Fortunately, I can choose to live elsewhere.

No, it was not their decision. In addition to giving up their Boy Scout units, the KC's were also instructed to begin phasing out its own youth program, the Columbian Squires.

Welcome to the forum. Did I understand you correctly? Is there some other position in district/council abbreviated as CR, or are we talking about the unit's Chartered Organization Representative? The IH is the only person who can appoint a Chartered Organization Representative.

You want to honor your commitment to the boys. That is admirable. I think you also have made a commitment to your Chartered Organization. Honor that commitment as well. You should not attempt to undermine the CO's unit by trying to use your position as DL to recruit your scouts to transfer to another unit. That would be disloyal. You live in a small rural community. The last thing you should want to do is to prove to the community that the CC was right all along.

The object of the game is to win. The purpose of the game is much more.

A lot of scouters say that sort of stuff about team sports (and team sport parents). In my 40 years of coaching and supervising team sports, I have seen very little of that. There are a lot of jobs in athletics other than professional athletes. There are hundreds of thousands of people employed in various sports related occupations. The odds for a sports enthusiast of getting an average-wage job in athletics are actually pretty good. A number of people on this forum have mentioned that they, or someone they know, have been employed in sports related fields. You don't even have to be a star player to get one of these jobs. Some of my best coaches and umpires were mediocre athletes. I don't think it is fair for you to calculate the "odds" of success in sports professions by including only the 1 NBA player from your school. I'm sure that your school has produced many fine coaches and supervisors who have gone on to lead very happy and successful lives without a multi-million dollar NBA salary.

I strongly disagree with your characterization of the short message given by team sports (we'll teach your kid to win). That is not our message. I was a baseball player. Even the best of players will succeed at bat only 1/3 of the time. We fail far more often than we succeed. The message of team sports is, we'll teach your kid how to lose, get back up on his two feet, and try all over again. The short message I give to my athletes is the same short message I give to my scouts. Try again!

Your son says that he wants to be with his friends. It sounds to me like he has already made his decision. Unless you have a legitimate reason to preempt his decision (religion, safety concerns, cost), let him choose the troop that is the best fit for him. If that troop isn't a good fit for you, it is time to gracefully bow out and pack away your uniform. Thank you for your service.

It was the Pope's decision. As Chisos said in his post, the point was to keep the parish as the "focal point" of The Catholic Church's youth ministries.

If the SM, CC, and COR are all missing in action, it is time to go have a sit down with the IH.