David CO

I disagree. Whether councils are good or bad can, will, and should directly effect their United Way funding. It is entirely relevant.

Dan, There is no way that I would allow you "in" my school to sell the program directly to the kids. It simply wouldn't happen. Don't take it personally. You are just asking for something that my school would never allow. To be effective, you need to learn the difference between what is actually possible and what is just beating your head against a wall.

I would have thought that in a topic titled Problem DE, it would be obvious to everyone that there would be griping about the execs.

I get your point. Do you get mine? I would much rather have direct registration. I would gladly lose the BSA insurance if that would mean that we could make our own risk assessments and run the program the way we used to. We don't need application forms or recruiting materials. The boys are members of my CO (school), and I already have all of their information on file. We don't use council camps. My diocese owns a great camp just 10 miles from us. I don't want my scouts showering with transgender kids. I have no use for the council. They are just a bunch of pests who get in the way of our running a good, old-fashioned, values-oriented scout program. I wish they would just go away.

They all are.

That won't work. In fact, it will give the council a good excuse to step in and take it over. If the "group of friends" are not a non-profit organization, they will subject to all the licensing and taxes as any other business venture.

I think it would have been far more courteous if the SE hadn't lied to the United Way chairperson (from my town) in the first place. I was ticked off that he involved my unit in his lie. They couldn't use anyone else. After the SE stated that the council subsidized handicapped scouts from my unit, the United Way wanted to hear from me specifically. The council doesn't provide any real program and/or services. We would be better off without them.

I was once asked to speak to the United Way people. They asked me to expound on how the council provided assistance to the several handicapped scouts I had in my unit. Instead, I explained to the United Way that the council didn't do a blessed thing for us. The handicapped kids actually payed full-freight on everything. They cut the funding to the council in half. For some strange reason, the council has never asked me to speak to the United Way again.

That's only one part of it. The congressional charter clearly intended that the scouting program remain faithful to its roots, and continue operating in the same manner as it had when it was founded. BSA has failed to live up to this promise. Shame on them.

No. The council lawyers statement doesn't confirm the validity of anything. It is just a self-serving statement from the council. It doesn't mean anything.

What did you expect to hear from the council lawyer? Did you think he would admit that they are violating the charter?

I agree. As a Science guy, I tend to like goals and objectives that can be observed and measured. Leadership is hard to define, much less measure.

It sounds like Girl Scouts.

IMO, a boy who achieves ranks and awards in the scouting program, but who also is socially isolated and disconnected from his class mates and neighbors, is not a good scout. A scout cannot do his duty to his God and his country while socially isolating himself from his church, school, and community.

I suppose that is a "Chicken or the Egg" type of question. Which came first? Scouting seems to attract the social outcasts. In some places this may be based on economic status. In other places, it may be for totally different reasons. As a scout leader, I have discouraged my scouts from using the scout unit as an island refuge to further isolate themselves from their peers. I want scouts to take the confidence and skills that they develop in scouting, and use them to reengage with their schools and communities. I think scouting should broaden a boy's world, not narrow it.

Not exactly. I think scouting prepares boys to be a big fish in a very small pond. It doesn't take the next step of teaching boys to swim in the big pond. Most of my scouts are afraid to swim in the big pond. Their peers sense this. I don't think boys scouts can lead their class mates if they are intimidated by them.

Yes, I think so. Most of my scouts would love to be a star athlete, popular student, and charismatic leader.

In order to be a leader, you need to have followers. Very few boys at school would accept the boy scouts as their leaders. The scouts just don't have what it takes to pull it off. That is why the scouting program is so important to them, and why we continue to charter a unit. Scouting gives these boys an opportunity to experience leadership. They would probably never get a chance to experience it otherwise.

The scouting program has many good features, and my scouts are a great group of kids. But the boy scouts are definitely not the most popular and charismatic group of boys in the school.

Above the rest in popularity and charisma? Seriously? You can't be talking about boy scouts.

It certainly doesn't.

The scout law is simplistic. As such, it is well suited for use in a game for boys. It is too simplistic to serve as a code of behavior for adults.

Of course we are no longer scout like. We are adults. We grew up. There are many adult things that don't fit into the scout law. War is one of them. It is not possible to wage war in a scout like manner. The historical fact that the American colonies rebelled against Great Britain has nothing to do with the scout law. This doesn't make the Revolutionary War wrong, nor does it mean we should change the scout law. The scout law is fine within the context of a game for boys. It just needs to be understood that the scout law doesn't apply everywhere. I think the scouts of my father's generation understood this while they were conducting scrap drives to collect war materials to make bombs to drop on the boys scouts of enemy countries.

No Barry, the scout law is not at all like the Ten Commandments. I take my religion very seriously, and I would never compare the scout law to the Ten Commandments. There is no comparison. I totally agree with your views on the Bible, but I don't think it applies to a scouting program. Apples and oranges. Scouting isn't a religion. I do explain that "little side-bar" to scouts. We all do. It is OK to undress and be examined by your doctor, but not by the weird guy down the street. Children need to be able to distinguish between the people they should obey, and those that they shouldn't. It is a basic survival skill that every child needs to learn.

Scouting is a game for boys. The scout law is part of that game. Scouting was never intended to be a religion, and the scout law was never intended to be a dogma. Anyone who tries to make the scout law into a dogma will quickly find out that it falls short. The scout law simply doesn't apply to most of the adult world. The fact that the scout law doesn't fit well into the adult world doesn't necessarily disqualify it for use in a game for boys.