David CO

Yes, it's like having a deck seat on the Titanic.

Yes, Boy Scouting is dead. I'm not saying that the business of BSA will go under. I'm sure that BSA will continue to operate in some shape, manner, or form. But the Boy Scouts as I knew it is dead. I went through the same heartbreak a few years back with the YMCA when it stopped being Young, Men, or Christian. This announcement has hit me hard. I feel like a real chump for having ever supported them.

Let's suppose that there is another complication to NJ's legal exam question. What if some of the parents itemized their deductions and declared the $50 as a donation to the unit. Is the unit now a part owner of the property? Joint ownership schemes have too many complications and causes too many problems. They should be avoided like the plague.

The policy you need is simple. No personal property may be stored with the unit's gear. Make it short and sweet. If the boys remove the property, and the unit no longer has physical possession, then the unit leaders will have no need to get involved in the "headache" of who owns it. If the boys should choose to leave the property in the possession of the unit, then the unit owns it. Let the 2 dads take their argument somewhere else.

Just say no.

I disagree with Fred. I think it is a very bad idea for patrols to buy their own gear. My main concern is that a unit could end up with one patrol, made up of wealthy kids, who can afford to buy better stuff than the rest of the unit. I wouldn't have wanted my unit to be divided up into rich patrols and poor patrols. My second concern is that a patrol might have a boy who really can't afford to contribute to the joint purchase, but who feels compelled to do so by social pressure from the other members of the patrol. My third concern is that collecting money for the patrol might negatively impact the unit's fundraising efforts. Why donate to your boy's unit when you could give the funds directly to his patrol? The idea that boys should have to pay a premium over their regular fees and dues in order to get in to an elite patrol is offensive to me.

Perhaps. But I am quite certain that he will not appreciate the "help" if he hears secondhand that the UC has been speaking to the SPL and COR behind his back.

Yes, that is exactly what it means. Say no to the SPL who asked for your help. It is your only good option.

Yes, you are treading in very dangerous waters here. My advice is to stop doing it. It is not just a bad choice of words. It is a bad choice of actions.

Yes, I get that. But rather than complaining about the boys not wanting to do the work, maybe he should be reexamining his program. Maybe it is getting to be too much work. Boys will only do as much work as they are willing to do. After that, they'll quit the program.

Not necessarily. We all know that some menu choices require a lot of clean up. Others make clean up a snap. So long as they are making reasonably healthy choices, I don't mind if a patrol opts for the no-pots-and-pans route. I'll even teach them how to do it. If your boys are leaving because they think your program is too much work, then maybe it is.

Not every boy who enjoys Cub Scouts will like Boy Scouting. They are two very different experiences. I wouldn't put too much blame on the Webelos leaders. Boys know their own minds. You can't transition them into a program or activity they simply don't like. If a boy thinks camping is too much work, move on, you've lost him. Boy Scouting is for boys who think camping is fun.

Good. You already know the direction you want to go, and you have the authority to lead the unit. Now the question is how do you get there. My unit had a half and half mix of parents and non-parents on our committee. This was by design, not by happenstance. We actively recruited within our CO for non-parent volunteers. We also wanted our unit committee to mirror the entire social economic make up of our CO. We weren't looking for just white collar professionals. We wanted blue collar workers, too. We got the word out that we weren't just rounding up "the usual suspects" in our search for our unit leadership. We were looking well beyond that. What kind of mix are you looking for?

Hi JoeLike, I am assuming that there is actually a "paper" committee already in place. You cannot charter or recharter a unit with BSA unless you have committee members. The first thing you should do is to find out who is listed on your roster as the unit committee members. If these people are willing to serve as a committee and carry out their duties as unit committee members, your problem is solved. It is not your place to appoint a committee. That's the job of the COR. If you feel that your unit needs to have more "active" members on the committee, I would suggest that you contact the COR with your concerns.

I think it is reasonable for parents to expect that when they sign their boy up for an intro to backpacking course, with adult supervision, that their boy would not be taking any "non-program" hikes without adult supervision. I am not an expert on backpacking, but I am an expert on swimming. If a parent signed up their boy for my intro to swimming course, I wouldn't let him get anywhere near the water without an expert, adult swim instructor directly supervising him. This is a question of expectations. The parents had a reasonable expectation that their son would be learning how to backpack under adult supervision.

Another outcome might be for the three ASM's to simply take their kids out of scouting and join the local sports programs, where their time and efforts will be better appreciated.

I would suggest that some people on this forum look inward to figure out why they feel the need to ascribe negative psychological traits to those who disagree with them. Is there really any difference between this sort of thing and making a direct personal insult?

Yep, times change. If we were scolded at school or scouts, we hoped that our parents wouldn't find out about it.

There is an old axiom that says that silence implies consent. If a transgression is committed publicly, and the entire unit is already aware of it, I see very little purpose in keeping the chastisement private. Likewise, if the transgression is done privately, and the unit is not already aware of it, I see little purpose in making the chastisement public. It is the transgressor who chooses to make his actions public. He has only himself to blame if his chastisement is made equally public. My main concern is that remaining silent in front of the other boys might lead some of them to believe that the transgressor has our ambivalence, if not our actual consent, for his transgression. Even so, I think the public remarks should always remain focused on the transgression, not on the boy.

I am not an expert on comparative religion. I only study my own. I do believe that there are differences in the ways that different religions practice chastisement and repentance. I am told that some religions have public confessions. I don't know if their members feel degraded and humiliated by the experience, or if they feel uplifted and renewed. I don't know. I really don't know. Either way, I am not going to criticize them. My religion doesn't tell parents how to discipline their children. It neither requires or forbids spanking, for example. So, I don't think of this debate regarding the public chastisement of children as being a religion issue. I do understand that this may not be the same for people of other religions. One religion might require something, while another religion might forbid it. Others might say nothing at all. I think it is wrong to assume that all religious people must share the same viewpoint on public chastisement, so I am going to leave religion out of it.

This is the second time you have brought religion into this conversation. I didn't speculate on or criticize your religion, so I ask that you don't criticize mine. No, that is not being nice. It is very definitely not being nice.

Apparently you haven't been watching the television set. Half the country supported a president who is rough in the way he talks. He sounds a lot like us. I actually like that. A lot of people do. I don't know what the average parent thinks, but I do know that a lot of them would disagree with you. Most of the people in my circle of family, friends, and acquaintances would disagree with you. I know that you feel superior to me. I know that you feel that your parents are superior to my parents. I know that you feel that your background is superior to my background. The thing that galls me is not that you think the adults in your life knew better. You think that you and the adults in your life are better.

Please, do tell all of us parents and grandparents about good parenting. After all, you attended NYLT. I would absolutely love to hear all about it.

I don't want it to wear off. I am proud of my working class background. I like my rough edges. A lot of my scouts liked it, too. They got enough of that phony-baloney soft-voiced counseling at school and church. They wanted their scoutmaster to be real, and talk like a real guy to them. I didn't counsel scouts, I just talked to them.

Effective counseling skills? Ha, ha, ha. Does this take place (in your unit) before yoga class or after group therapy?