David CO

I don't know if the cub master was talking about BSA rules or unit policy when he said that dual registration is not allowed. While the original pack cannot stop you from joining another unit, it can drop your son from membership in their unit. I also don't know what you mean when you say he gave you a hard time.

Most of the time, the councils don't have any valid reason for closing a camp. The execs just want to cash in on the properties to pay their own salaries. I can't see any valid reason for closing Camp Sunnen. I'm not saying that there is never a valid reason. One camp closed because the state built a highway along side the property, and the noise from the traffic made it unusable as a campground. That is a valid reason. Some of these old camps survived the Great Depression. It's hard to believe that they couldn't still make a go of it today.

It looks like the YMCA has a right of first refusal to buy the property.

Yikes!

No, not at all. My town has a man-made lake that has to be emptied and dredged out about every 15 years or so. Emptying the lake is a simple and inexpensive process. Doing the dredging work and making repairs to the bank are the expensive parts of the project. Just like other properties, man-made lakes require maintenance. If a camp owns a man-made lake, they should be budgeting for maintenance. They shouldn't be neglecting their property and sticking the tax payers with the bill.

If there is an immediate danger to the public, the government should safely drain the man-made lake and then allow the camp to refill it only after they have met all of the applicable safety codes.

One could very easily use the same reasoning to reach an opposite conclusion. If scouters of good conscience can't agree on what hazing is, then we shouldn't have any hazing rules at all.

In my experience, scouters can't agree on anything. If we required agreement, nothing would get done.

Let's apply your logic to paper napkins. Would you throw away paper napkins if they cost $200 each? If you wouldn't, then you have to admit that you shouldn't discard a paper napkin, regardless of the cost.

There wouldn't be any issue if the cards cost $200. We wouldn't be handing them out.

You gave me the impression that your son has his eye on the JASM position. I'm sure you know that an appointment to this position requires the approval of the "adults" in your unit. I think your son is taking his eye off the ball. He should be trying his best to prove to the "adults" that he has the right stuff to be a JASM.

...or posting advice on scouter.com. But since your son is resisting advice, to the point of him contemplating quitting the unit, you should not be talking about brick walls. There is more than one brick wall in this patrol.

I really can't blame the scout for being a little miffed if your son didn't really want the position, but ran only to oppose him. A person might take that personally.

Why? This is the sort of thing a PL should handle on his own.

Sure, if you're Kenneth Branagh. I'm not sure the rest of us could pull it off.

True. But neither are the opinions on this forum.

Is it a contest?

The article said that the university will continue to offer these activities through their staff supervised outdoor program, so they are not totally banning the outdoor activities. They are requiring these outdoor activities to be organized and supervised by staff. This sounds similar to BSA banning units from organizing and supervising their own shooting activities. BSA requires that some activities be organized and supervised by the council staff. So, I would argue that the university is not eliminating the activities. They are treating their college students like cub scouts.

Adults travel in pairs. What did the other adult say about all this?

Your son is being picked on by an adult. I would drop all of the other issues and focus on that.

It is a bit more than mildly obnoxious. I don't quote BSA, but I often quote the CO's guidebooks. The way our CO is structured, any teacher at our school can discipline any student, regardless of whether or not the student happens to be in that teacher's class. The teachers act as a team. Likewise, any administrator can give a directive to any teacher (or other subordinate), regardless of whether or not the teacher works in that administrator's department. The administrators act as a team. If a person is an authorized leader, appointed by the CO, in any unit owned by the CO, my CO would expect the scouts to obey him/her. That authority comes from the Chartered Organization. The CO owns the unit(s). I would not recommend that any parent challenge the authority of the CO, or of any appointed leaders to whom the CO's authority is delegated. But since bearess has told us that the units have different CO's, it is moot point as far as this discussion is concerned.

Maybe. Maybe not.

Not true.

This is none of your business. Stay out of it. There might be a good reason.

Your son is the patrol leader. He should talk to the SPL. The SPL should talk to the SM. Was the CM out of line? Good question. If the two units are unrelated, then the CM is just a parent of a scout in the troop. He would have no authority to give orders to any boy scouts other than his son. But if the CM and SM share the same Chartered Organization, they might recognize the CM as having some authority in both units. You should find out where things stand before you speak up.